Conversation No.716-2

Date: May 1, 1972
Time: Unknown time after 4:11 pm and 5:29 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with William P. Rogers and Henry A. Kissinger. The recording began at an
unknown time while the conversation was in progress.

     Soviet Union
          -Letter
          -Intentions
                -Request for evaluations
                      -Georges J.R. Pompidou
                      -Edward R.G. Heath
                      -Willy Brandt
          -Negotiations
                -Ronald L. Ziegler
                -President's Paper
                      -Gerard C. Smith
                      -Vladimir S. Semenov
                      -Leonid I. Brezhnev’s paper
                -US position
                      -Statement
                -Smith
                      -Instructions
          -Vietnam issue
                -Soviet interest
                      -Summit
                            -Risks
                      -Brandt

     Vietnam
          -Paris peace negotiations
                -Kissinger’s forthcoming trip to Paris
          -Air strikes
                -Hanoi
                -Haiphong
                      -Times
                      -Duration
                      -Intensity of strikes
                                     3

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                            Tape Subject Log
                              (rev. Dec-01)
                                                           Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

     -Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
     -B-52's
     -Naval gunfire
           -USS Newport News
     -Tactical air strikes [TACAIR]
     -Intensity
     -Military targets
           -Troop training areas
           -Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
           -Abrams
-Negotiations
     -North Vietnam proposals
     -Success
     -Announcement
           -Timing
           -Negotiations
                 -Rogers's itinerary in Europe
-Soviet Summit
     -Rogers's trip to Europe
           -Statements on plans
                 -Wording
     -North Vietnamese offensive
           -US reactions
                 -Impact on Summit
                        -Rogers's statement to Europeans
     -US stance
           -Relation to Vietnam
           -Conditions
                 -Soviet support for North Vietnam
                 -Abrams’s report
     -Likelihood
     -British support
     -Pompidou
     -Brandt
     -Major issues
           -Importance
                 -Compared with Vietnam
     -US interests in Vietnam
     -Brandt
     -Heath
                                               4

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. Dec-01)
                                                                       Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

     Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
           -Rogers's trip to Europe
                -Smith
                -President's paper
                       -Submarine launched ballistic missiles [SLBMs]
                             -Brezhnev
                             -Smith
           -Soviet proposals
           -US proposals
                -Submarine
                -Missiles
                       -SLBMs
                -Compared with Soviet proposals
                -National Security Decision Memorandum [NSDM]
                -President's letter to Smith
           -Submarines
                -Soviet development
                -US programs
           -Multiple independently-targetable reentry vehicle [MIRV] issue
                -US missiles
                       -Dwight D. Eisenhower Administration
                       -Robert S. McNamara
                       -Status of new missile
                             -Launching
                             -Payload
                                   -Compared to SS-9

     Soviet Summit
          -Rogers's trip to Europe
               -Trade
               -European Security
               -Mutual and Balanced Force Reduction [MBFR]
               -Middle East issues

Ronald L. Ziegler entered at 4:23 pm.

                -Communications
                     -Reports on Vietnam
                -Return to US
                -Duration of trip
                                               5

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. Dec-01)
                                                                     Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

Rogers and Kissinger left at 4:24 pm.

     Rogers
         -Request for paper

     Soviet Union
          -Ziegler's statement
               -President's exchanges with Brezhnev
                      -Purpose
               -Discussions with Smith and senior advisors
               -Rogers, Melvin R. Laird, Richard H. Helms, Moorer, Kissinger
               -Issues for resolution

Kissinger entered at 4:26 pm.

     Soviet Union
          -Smith
                -Statement
          -Brezhnev paper
                -Rogers
                -Submarines
                -President's proposals
          -President's statement
                -SALT Agreement
                      -Likelihood of conclusion
                      -Improvement
                -Smith
                      -Instructions
                      -Return to Helsinki
                -Exchanges with Soviets
                      -Purpose
                      -Bases
                -Agreement
                      -Likelihood
                      -Smith announcement
                -Conclusion of statement
                      -Laird, Moorer, Helms
          -SALT Agreement
                -Smith proposals
                      -Rogers
                -Ziegler's statement
                                               6

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Dec-01)
                                                            Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

                      -Deletions
                      -Smith
                 -Likelihood
                      -Conclusion
                 -Discussions
                      -Smith
                             -President's instructions
                      -Soviet reactions
                             -Brezhnev
                 -Conclusion
                      -Press questions
                 -Sensitivity of negotiations
                 -Conclusion
                      -Soviet Summit
                 -Ziegler's statement
                      -Rose Mary Woods
                      -Response to questions
                      -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.’s review

Ziegler left at 4:36 pm.

                 -Smith’s proposals
                 -Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
                      -Brezhnev

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:36 pm.

     Haig meeting with President

Bull left at an unknown time before 4:38 pm.

     Soviet Union
          -SALT
               -Dobrynin
                     -Meeting with Kissinger
               -President's statement
               -Brezhnev proposals
               -Rogers
               -Laird, Helms and Moorer
                     -Support for Brezhnev proposals
               -Rogers
                                                7

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Dec-01)
                                                                       Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

                       -Position on proposals
                 -Intercontinental ballistic missiles [ICBMs]
                       -Equality

Haig entered at 4:38 pm.

                 -Submarines
                      -Soviet development
                 -Smith's proposal
                      -The President’s view
                      -Previous position
                            -National Security Council [NSC] meeting
                            -SLBMs
                      -Brezhnev proposals
                            -Rogers's judgment

Alexander P. Butterfield entered at 4:39 pm.

     President's schedule
          -Meeting with legislative leaders
                 -Day

Butterfield left at 4:40 pm.

     Soviet Union
          -SALT
               -US goals
                    -Formulation
                    -Legislative support
                           -Problems
               -Smith
                    -Instructions
                           -Preparation
               -Proposals
                    -Orders to Smith
                           -NSDM
               -Soviet strategy
               -Smith’s strategy
                    -Brezhnev
                    -Problems
                    -US proposals
                             8

     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                    Tape Subject Log
                      (rev. Dec-01)
                                                     Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

            -Soviet position
-US proposals
     -Laird, Helms, Moorer
     -Submarines
            -Rogers’s evaluation
            -Wording of proposals
            -Soviet proposals
            -Soviet missiles
                 -Calculations
     -Moorer and Laird
     -Smith’s position
-Anti-ballistic missiles [ABMs]
     -Radius
     -Sites
-Smith’s proposals at cabinet meeting
     -Kissinger’s view
     -Haig’s view
     -SLBMs
-US proposals
     -Congressional funding
            -Laird
            -Undersea long-range missile system [ULMS]
            -John C. Stennis
     -Soviet missile numbers
-Submarines
     -Kissinger’s position on inclusion in SALT
            -Moorer, Laird, Adm. Elmo R. Zumwalt, Jr.
-A forthcoming meeting
     -Kissinger's attendance
-Soviet proposals
     -Smith’s position
            -U. Alexis Johnson
            -ABMs
            -SLBMs
            -Offensive missiles
     -Rogers’s judgment
            -Kissinger’s view
            -Brezhnev
     -Smith and Rogers
            -Motives
                 -Kissinger’s view
                                                 9

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. Dec-01)
                                                                       Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

                -President's position
                      -Public perceptions
                            -Polls
                                  -Soviet trip
                                  -Bombing

     Vietnam
          -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
          -News stories
               -Ceasefire proposals
               -Kissinger’s position compared with the President’s position
               -Source
                     -State Department
                     -Washington Special Action Group [WSAG]
                     -Marvin L. Kalb
                     -Kissinger's position
          -Negotiations
               -President’s and Kissinger’s positions
                     -News stories
                     -Reasons
               -Kissinger’s statement
                     -Cease-fire proposal
                     -Le Duc Tho
               -North Vietnamese perceptions of President
                     -Kissinger’s statement to Dobrynin
          -North Vietnamese offensive
               -Kontum
               -Quang Tri
                     -Capture
               -Army of the Republic of Vietnam [ARVN] performance
                     -Commander
                     -Forces

Ronald L. Ziegler entered at 4:51 pm.

                -US air strikes
                     -Hue
                -Kontum
                -ARVN performance

     SALT
                                               10

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Dec-01)
                                                        Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

           -Agreement
                -Confidential exchanges
                -Likelihood
                      -Increase
                -Ziegler’s statement
                -President’s meeting with Smith
                      -President’s instructions
                      -Return to Helsinki
                      -President’s instructions
                -Soviet response
                      -Brezhnev

Ziegler left at 4:56 pm.

     Vietnam
          -Report
               -Laird
          -North Vietnamese offensive
               -ARVN performance
                    -Abrams
                    -Reports on I Corps
                    -Provincial capitals
                          -Kontum, An Loc
                    -Counter offensive
                          -I Corps
                          -Hue
                          -Goals
                          -Kontum
               -ARVN
                    -Strength
                    -Strategy
                          -Provincial towns
                    -Losses
                          -Kontum
                          -23rd division
                          -22nd division
                    -Hue
                          -Value
                    -Strategy
                          -Central Highlands
                          -Haig’s view
                              11

     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                      Tape Subject Log
                        (rev. Dec-01)
                                          Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

                -Kontum
                -Hue
      -Targets
            -Air power
                  -Effectiveness
-Air power
      -Abrams
-ARVN
      -Quang Tri
            -Division commander
                  -Control
                  -Performance
                  -Possible press story
                  -Meeting with Haig
            -Performance
      -Counterattack
      -Haig’s view
      -An Loc
            -Performance
      -Tai Nien [?]
            -Performance
      -Air power
            -Dependence
      -Artillery
      -Tanks and artillery
            -Comparison with Soviet
-Soviet weapons
      -Systems
            -Introduction
            -Missiles
-ARVN
      -Chances of success
            -Haig’s judgment
-North Vietnamese resolve
      -Haig’s view
      -Kissinger’s previous prediction
      -Kissinger’s view
            -Dien Bien Phu comparison
-Air power
-III corps
      -Tanks
                                             12

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Dec-01)
                                                           Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

                      -Level of activity

Ziegler entered at 5:04 pm.

     SALT
         -Ziegler's statement
              -Listing of advisors
              -Talks with Brezhnev
              -Subjects of discussion
              -Questions
                     -The President’s May 1971 statement
                           -ABM
                           -Offensive weapons
              -SLBMs
              -Statements
                     -Wording
                     -SLBMs
                     -Weapons systems
              -SLBMs
                     -Discussion
              -Leaks
              -Breakthrough
              -ABMs
              -Discussions with press
              -Smith
                     -President’s instructions
              -Scope of talks

     Soviet summit
          -Plans
          -Questions from press
          -Agreement
               -Conclusion
                     -Conditions
               -Progress in negotiations
               -ABM questions
               -Exchanges between President and Brezhnev
                     -Number
               -Press interest

     Vietnam
                                             13

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Dec-01)
                                                        Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

           -North Vietnamese offensive
                -ARVN morale
                -Negotiations
                     -Plenary sessions
                     -Progress
                -Continuation
                -Quang Tri
                     -Loss
                     -Kissinger
                            -Ziegler’s comments
                -ARVN
                     -The President’s view
                     -North Vietnamese weapons
                            -Sophistication
                                 -Soviet Union
                     -US air support
                -Ziegler’s statement
                     -Losses
                -North Vietnamese losses
                     -Extent
                -Attacks on North Vietnam by US
                     -Military targets
                -Commentary
                -Losses
                     -Abrams

Ziegler left at 5:06 pm.

                 -ARVN performance
                       -I Corps
                 -Strength
                       -Determination
                       -Weaponry
                       -US underestimations
                 -Quang Tri
                       -Shelling
                             -Number of rounds
                             -Ammunition dump
                                 -Destruction
                                 -Impact on morale
                 -Naval gunfire
                                   14

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                           Tape Subject Log
                             (rev. Dec-01)
                                                               Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

           -Intensity
     -Attrition
     -Number of troops
           -Verification
     -US response
           -Bombing of North Vietnam
                 -Extent of destruction
           -Blockade
                 -Haiphong
                 -Soviet concerns
     -Soviet activities
           -Concerns over US actions
                 -Le Duc Tho
-Soviets
     -Letter from Brezhnev
           -Settlement
-Negotiations
     -Le Duc Tho
-North Vietnamese offensive
     -Hanoi
     -Haiphong
           -Bombing
                 -US public opinion
           -Air strikes
                 -Intensity
                 -B-52s
                       -Number
                 -TACAIR strikes
                       -Level
                 -Damage
                       -Comparison with Lyndon B. Johnson
                            -Bombing halt
     -Naval response
           -Positioning of ships
                 -USS Newport News
                 -Zumwalt
           -Gunfire support
                 -Shore batteries
     -Blockade
           -Relationship to president's trip to Soviet Union
           -Conditions
                                              15

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Dec-01)
                                                                           Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

                -President’s strategy
                      -Military response
                      -Soviet summit
                            -Domestic and congressional concerns
                -Air strikes
                      -Scheduling
                      -Plenary sessions
                      -Negotiations
                            -Outcome
                            -Private meeting
                            -Plenary session
                                  -Possible walkout by William J. Porter
                            -Cancellation
                            -North Vietnamese actions
                            -Cancellation
                                  -News report
                -Negotiations
                      -Plenary session
                            -Porter’s reaction
                                  -Quang Tri, Kontum attacks
                                  -Possible walkout
                                  -Resumption
                                        -Conditions
                -Kontum
                      -Possible loss
                            -Timing
                -Hue
                      -Shelling
                            -Fire Base Bastongne
                                  -130mm artillery
                                        -B-52s
                -Artillery of North Vietnamese
                      -Destruction
                            -TACAIR
                -Air Force actions
                      -The President’s view
                      -Gen. John W. Vogt, Jr.

Kissinger and Haig left at 5:29 pm.
                                              16

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Dec-01)
                                                                         Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)