Conversation: 652-013Prev: 652-012 Next: 652-014
Start Date: 20-Jan-1972 4:52 PM
End Date: 20-Jan-1972 5:59 PM
Participants:Nixon, Richard M. (President); Cooke, Terence Cardinal; McCarrick, Theodore E.; Flanigan, Peter M.; Haig, Alexander M., Jr.; Bull, Stephen B.; White House photographer; [Unknown person(s)]; White House operator; Westmoreland, William (Gen.); Laird, Melvin R.;
Recording Device: Oval Office
Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 01:42:36
Full Tape Conversation End Time: 02:49:50
On January 20, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Terence Cardinal Cooke, Theodore E. McCarrick, Peter M. Flanigan, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., Stephen B. Bull, White House photographer, unknown person(s), White House operator, Gen. William Westmoreland, and Melvin R. Laird met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:52 pm to 5:59 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 652-013 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 652-13 Date: January 20, 1972 Time: 4:52 pm - 5:59 pm Location: Oval Office The President met with Terence Cardinal Cooke, Theodore E. McCarrick, Peter M. Flanigan and Alexander M. Haig, Jr.; Stephen B. Bull, the White House photographer, and members of the press were present at the beginning of the meeting. Greetings The President’s schedule Cooke’s return from trip to Vietnam -Servicemen -Haig’s question to Cooke -Morale An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 4:52 pm. Refreshment The unknown person left at an unknown time before 5:22 pm. The President’s State of the Union Address -Cooke’s watching on television The President’s schedule -Cabinet meeting -Cooke’s activity during meeting [General conversation] 20 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) [Photograph session] The White House photographer and the press left at an unknown time after 4:52 pm. Cooke’s trip to Vietnam -Unknown bishop -Travel to Greenland, Iceland and Europe -US armed forces -Drugs -Situation -Prevention, education, treatment -Incoming troops -Da Nang -Compared to other areas -Morale -Troop withdrawal -Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.’s report to Cooke -Commanders -Concern -General [Forename] McDonough [sp?] -Da Nang -Defensive action -Explanation to troops -Compared to earlier tone -Peace time forces -Korea -Japan -Western Europe -US bases -Pride in duty -Compared with rear area service in World War II -The President’s experience -Noumea -Guadalcanal -South Vietnamese -Morale -Farming, housing -New schools, seminary buildings -Da Nang -Hospitals -Pacification 21 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) -Effects -Publicity -Military forces -Harvest -Land reform -Building -Schools, stores, roads -Vietnamization -Term -Connotation -Military -Troop withdrawal -Melvin R. Laird -Public response -Greek-Turkish aid program -Marshall Plan -Alliance for progress -South and North Vietnamese development -Self-help -“Partnership for development” -Rice surplus -South Vietnamese population -Vietcong -US, South Vietnamese casualties -Decline -South Vietnamese army -Forthcoming offensive by North Vietnam -Handling -Prospects -Nature of wars -Retreating -Battle at Tannenberg -Book by Winston S. Churchill -Russians -L’vov -German retreat 22 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) -Effect on Russians -Prisoners -Battle of the Bulge -Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. -Pincher movement Vietnam -Statement by Catholic Bishops -End of war -Justness of wars -Useful purpose of Vietnam war -Peace -Aid to South Vietnam -Number of North Vietnamese in Laos, Cambodia and South Vietnam -1954 accords -Self defense -Justness of wars -Self defense -South Vietnamese survival -US support -1954 events -Bishop of Da Nang -Civilian casualties -Starvation -Possible casualties -US withdrawal -Peace -Avoiding South Vietnamese casualties -Catholics -Conduct of war -The President’s view -Statement by Catholic Bishops -Cooke’s position -Minority opinion -US unilateral withdrawal -Cooke’s editing -Immorality of war -Possible impact on US troops -Consistency with US policy -Treatment by press 23 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) -Compared with actual statement -The President’s reading -Francis Cardinal Spellman -Minority opinion -Press treatment -Compared with Quakers’ response -Support of the President’s policies -Cooke’s conversation with unknown men Cooke’s speech -Rose Mary Woods’s assessment Richard E. Berlin -Health -Roosevelt Hospital -Media report, January 19, 1972 -Religion -Invitation to Readers’ Digest dinner, January 28, 1972 -Location [The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 4:52 pm and 5:22 pm.] [Conversation No. 652-13A] [See Conversation No. 19-35] The President conferred with Cooke during the telephone conversation. Berlin’s location [End of conferral] [End of telephone conversation] White House operator Berlin -Admiration for the President -Muriel (“Honey”) (Johnson) Berlin 24 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) Vietnam -Forthcoming developments -End of war in 1972 -US involvement -Prisoners of war [POWs] -US withdrawals -US aid to South Vietnam -Cooke’s trip -Stop in Bethlehem -“Generation of peace” -Mass for peace -Cooke’s previous visits -The President’s travels -Mass for peace -“Shepherd’s Field” -Remembrance of the President People’s Republic of China [PRC] -The President’s forthcoming trip -Henry A. Kissinger’s briefing of Cooke -Instructions to Haig -Population -Catholic missionaries -Captivity -Bishop James E. Walsh The President’s forthcoming trip to Soviet Union -Briefing of Cooke State of the Union Address -The President’s foreign trips and relations -Differences -Hopes for peace Cooke’s talk with Soviet Friends in New York -Communists -The President’s foreign trips [The White House operator talked with the President at 5:22 pm.] [Conversation No. 652-13B] 25 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) [See Conversation No. 19-36] [End of telephone conversation] Berlin -Forthcoming conversation with Cooke -The President’s attempted call India -Cooke’s visit to Calcutta -Refugees -Relief work by voluntary agencies -US aid -Humanitarian efforts -United Nations [UN] -Catholic efforts -Pakistan Parochial schools -Rate of closings -Prospects -Government assistance -Presidential commission [President’s Committee on School Finance] -Forthcoming report -Administration plan -Tax credit -Supreme Court decision -Child benefits -Direct subsidy -Tax credit -Benefit to public and parochial schools -Legislation -Flanigan’s possible conversation with John B. Connally -Property tax substitute -Justice Department view -Bishops’ view -Constitutionality -Government assistance -Legislation -Flanigan’s possible talks with Connally and John D. Ehrlichman 26 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) -Congressional schedule -Tax Bill -Revenue sharing -Health program -Ways and Means Committee -Tax Bill -Neil H. McElroy Committee [President’s Committee on School Finance] report -Connally -Talk with Flanigan -Meeting with Cooke -Need for support -The President’s policy -Connally -Relation with Cooke -Schedule -Meeting -Publicity -Speech in New York City to conference board -Cooke’s home -Need for public confidence -Legislation -Prospects for educational pluralism -Government assistance -Connally -Schedule -Forthcoming Cabinet dinner -Possible conversation with the President -New York City -Meeting with Cooke -International monetary matters -Standing in Cabinet -School closing rate -Educational pluralism -Public education -National Education Association [NEA] -Values -Schools in foreign countries -The President’s visits -PRC -Soviet Union 27 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) -Romania -Hungary -Poland -Czechoslovakia -Public education -State control -Government assistance -Inflation -Character compared to intelligence -Arrogance, pride -Legislation -Timing -Flanigan’s comment -Justice Department -Supreme Court -William H. Rehnquist -Position The President’s schedule -Meeting with William C. Westmoreland Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:22 pm. -Request that Westmoreland join them -Kissinger’s schedule Bull left at an unknown time before 5:38 pm. The President’s schedule State of the Union Address -Reaction The President’s health -Predecessors William Westmoreland entered at 5:38 pm. Greetings Introduction 28 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) Vietnam -Armed forces -Morale -Cooke’s talks with troops -Families at home -Societal problems -Education by military Westmoreland -Forthcoming trip to Indonesia Cooke’s forthcoming meeting with Connally [General conversation] The President’s schedule -Trip to PRC -Future meeting with Cooke Cooke, McCarrick and Flanigan left and Melvin R. Laird entered at 5:40 pm. Harold O. Lovre -Funeral -Chowder and Marching Club -Formerly Representative from South Dakota -Home -Funeral -Cabinet meeting -Laird -Rogers C. B. Morton -The President’s wreath -Recent health -Laird’s recent meeting -Cancer -Recent party Indonesia -Westmoreland’s talk with Haig -The President’s letter -Lt. Gen. TNJ Suharto 29 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) -Forthcoming conversation with Westmoreland -Francis J. Galbraith -Economic assistance -State department policy -Marshall Green -Former ambassadors -Military security program -Suharto -US support -Geography -Population -Agriculture -Rice -Nixon Doctrine -Aid program -Size -Congress -Westmoreland trip -US policy in Southeast Asia -Vietnam -US interest and presence -The President’s trip to PRC -US policy -Population and resources -Compared with Southeast Asia, Thailand -Vietnam -Soviets -US aid -Congress -Aid to other nations -Cambodia -Consortium -Connally’s previous trip -US aid -India -Military aid -Military -Communism -Training -Importance 30 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) US military influence -International sales -Laird’s possible conversation with Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS] -Latin America -French sales -Training -Peru -Chile -Salvador Allende Gossens -US policy -JCS -J. William Fulbright -Michael J. Mansfield -Frank F. Church -Arms -Civilian compared to military regimes -Yugoslavia -Reorganization of Communist Party -Latin America -Military attaches -Function -Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters -Brazil -Relationship with the President -Venezuela -Commander of army -Visit with Westmoreland -Latin America -Trade -France -Oil -US purchases -France -Bolivia -President [Hugo Banzer-Suarez] -Relations with Westmoreland -Military assistance -Rate of delivery -Relations with US -Latin American aid -Limitations 31 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) -Fulbright and Church -Non-military uses -Education -Soviet Union -MIGs -India -Economic compared to military -Soviet Union -Military aid -Political problems -Military regimes -Congress -Unknown person -Military sales -India -US compared to Soviet equipment -Congressional limitations -Effect on Nixon Doctrine -Paper from Laird -Delivery to the President through Haig -National Security Council [NSC] -State Department -William P. Rogers -Senate Foreign Relations Committee Forthcoming Cabinet dinner -Laird’s presence State of the Union Address -Westmoreland’s presence Indonesia -Westmoreland’s trip -The President’s view -Population -Wealth -Westmoreland’s trip -Suharto -[Unintelligible name] -Vietnam -Cambodia 32 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF Tape Subject Log (rev. 10/06) Conv. No. 652-13 (cont.) -Phnom Penh -Vietnam -Military prospects -Nguyen Van Thieu -Cambodia -Gen. Lon Nol -Udorn -C. McMurtrie Godley -The President’s trip to PRC Haig, et al. left at 5:59 pm.