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Conversation: 656-010

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Start Date: 26-Jan-1972 10:08 AM

End Date: 26-Jan-1972 12:02 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Kissinger, Henry A.Fannin, Paul J.White House operatorRogers, William P.Bull, Stephen B.Haig, Alexander M., Jr.Biesheuvel, Barend W.Middendorf, J. William, IIWhite House photographer[Unknown person(s)]Lynden, Baron Rijnard B. Van

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 00:18:31

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 02:12:45

656a.mp3

656b.mp3

656c.mp3

NARA Description:

On January 26, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Henry A. Kissinger, Paul J. Fannin, White House operator, William P. Rogers, Stephen B. Bull, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., Barend W. Biesheuvel, J. William Middendorf, II, White House photographer, unknown person(s), and Baron Rijnard B. Van Lynden met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:08 am to 12:02 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 656-010 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 656-10

Date: January 26, 1972
Time: 10:08 am - 12:02 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and Henry A. Kissinger.

     Congressional resolution
         -Preparation of a letter
               -Kissinger’s talk with Hugh Scott and Gerald R. Ford
                     -Scott’s and Ford’s view
               -The President’s talk with Ford
               -Scott
               -Benefits
               -Kissinger’s schedule
               -Ford’s and Scott’s location
                     -Ronald L. Ziegler
               -Scott

     Kissinger briefing

     Proposed terms of cease-fire
          -Kissinger’s briefing
                -Political benefits
                      -George S. McGovern’s comments concerning the President’s statement
                            about Nguyen Van Thieu and North Vietnam
                -Possible revelation of North Vietnamese position
                      -Thieu overthrow
                      -Troop withdrawal
                      -Documentation
                      -As consequence of denial

Kissinger left at 10:11 am.

[The President talked with Paul J. Fannin between 10:11 am and 10:12 am.]

[Conversation No. 656-10A]

[See Conversation No. 19-93]
                                             7

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                       Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


[End of telephone conversation]

     The President’s Vietnam peace proposal speech, January 25, 1972
          -News coverage
               -Inaccuracy of reporting
                     -Administration handling
                            -Assigning responsibility
          -The President’s schedule
               -Recent Congressional leaders meeting
               -Kissinger
          -Kissinger briefing to staff, January 25, 1972
               -Tone
               -Secret diplomacy
               -First draft of speech
               -Robert H. Finch’s reaction
               -Politics
               -John A. Scali
               -State and Defense Department
          -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
               -Congressional leaders meeting
               -Staff meeting
               -Thieu resignation
                     -Timing of announcement
                            -Peace proposal
                            -Public relations
                            -Kissinger

[The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 10:12 am and
10:17 am and requested a call to William P. Rogers.]

[Conversation No. 656-10B]

[See Conversation No. 19-94]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Budget meeting
         -Agnew
              -Complaints
              -Political future
              -Demeanor
                                                8

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 10/06)
                                                                    Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


                      -Compared to John B. Connally
                          -Approach to problems

[The President talked with Rogers between 10:17 am and 10:18 am.]

[Conversation No. 656-10C]

[See Conversation No. 19-181]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Agnew
         -Demeanor

     White House staff
          -Charles W. Colson
                -Scali
          -William L. Safire
          -Scali
          -Kissinger’s call to Scali, Rogers, Connally
          -The President’s schedule
                -Congressional leaders meeting
                      -Agnew
                            -Demeanor
                            -Consultation
                            -Staff meeting
          -Kissinger
                -Handling
                -Loyalty of White House staff
                -Meeting with Haldeman
                -Winston Lord
                -Demeanor concerning Vietnam
                      -Troop withdrawal
                      -Negotiations
                            -Status
                            -Trips
                                  -Kissinger’s comments
                                       -Progress of talks
                            -Rogers
                            -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                            -Ellsworth F. Bunker
                                            9

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 10/06)
                                                           Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


                      -Creation of record
                -Positive outlook
                      -Press conference
           -Press conference
                -Ziegler
                -Necessity

The President’s Vietnam peace proposal speech
     -News coverage
           -Marvin L. Kalb
                  -Kissinger briefing
                        -Scali
     -First draft
           -Kissinger’s reaction
           -Edits
                  -Safire
     -Kalb
           -Scali
     -Dan Rather
           -Possible letters
                  -Demand for apology
           -Vietnam troop withdrawal
                  -Timing
                        -1972 election
                              -Kalb
                              -[Arnold] Eric Sevareid
     -Public perception
           -Prisoners of war [POWs]
           -Troops
           -Ceasefire
                  -Korea
     -Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey, Jr.
           -F. Bradford Morse
                  -Letter
                        -Colson
           -Withdrawal from race
                  -Conditions
     -Effect on credibility of Administration
     -McCloskey’s comment
           -Secret negotiations
                  -Administration action
                                       10

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. 10/06)
                                                        Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


    -Right wing’s reaction
         -Speech ending
    -Effect on attention to budget message
    -Thrust of PR
         -“Keep America United” theme
               -Congressional leaders meeting
               -Negotiations
         -Clark MacGregor
    -Delivery
         -Lack of Vietnam speeches
         -Complexity of subject
         -Clarity
               -Process
         -Style
               -Atmosphere
                      -Eye contact with camera
    -Campaign benefit

The President’s schedule
     -Signing of economic report
           -Press interest
     -Need for study
     -Forthcoming meeting with Richard M. Scammon
     -Congressional leaders meeting
     -Press picture
     -Maurice H. Stans’ announcement
           -Peter G. Peterson
     -Camp David
     -Economic report signing
           -Press interest
           -Photographs
     -Quadriad meeting
           -Timing
                 -Connally
     -Economic report
     -Stans
           -Dinner
     -Peterson
           -Press interest
                 -Swearing-in
     -Earl L. Butz
                                                11

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                         Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


          -Rogers C. B. Morton
          -Camp David
          -Friday schedule
                -Dr. Rainer Barzel
                -Dewitt Wallace dinner
          -Weekend plans
          -PR
                -Preparation for People’s Republic of China [PRC] trip
                      -Briefing books
                      -Rogers and Kissinger

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:18 am.

          -Kissinger’s schedule
               -Press briefing

Bull left at an unknown time before 10:42 am.

          -PRC trip
              -PR
                    -Camp David
                         -Preparations
                         -Return to Washington, DC
          -McGovern and McCloskey
              -Administration counterattack
                    -Congressional leaders
                    -Vietnam critics
          -Media support

Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:18 am.

          -Kissinger
               -Briefing

Bull left at an unknown time before 10:42 am.

          -Television messages and domestic affairs
               -John D. Ehrlichman
               -Environment
               -Drugs
               -Benefits
                                             12

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                     Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


           -J. William Middendorf, II
                -The President’s meeting with Prime Minister of Netherlands [Barend W.
                      Biesheuvel]
                      -Review
                -Kissinger
                -Rogers
                -Attendance at meeting of the President and Biesheuvel
                      -Haig
                      -State Department
                      -Rogers

[The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 10:18 am and
10:42 am and requested Haig.]

[Conversation No. 656-10D]

[See Conversation No. 19-95]

[End of telephone conversation]

[The President talked with Haig between 10:42 and 10:43 am.]

[Conversation No. 656-10E]

[See Conversation No. 19-96]

[End of telephone conversation]

     The President’s schedule
          -Middendorf

Kissinger entered at 10:44 am.

     Kissinger schedule

     Vietnam
          -North Vietnamese terms
               -McGovern
               -Thieu government
                    -Overthrow
                    -Secret deal
                                   13

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                           Tape Subject Log
                             (rev. 10/06)
                                                           Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


           -Thieu
           -Publication of terms
     -Kissinger press conference
           -Review of peace process
                -Timetable
                -Withdrawal
                -Government
                -Ceasefire
                -Eight point plan
           -US proposal
                -Terms
                      -Unilateral withdrawal
     -Surrender
           -Deadline
     -Return of POWs
     -Overthrow of government
           -South Vietnamese people
           -US reaction
-Agnew
     -Attitude
     -The President’s Vietnam peace proposal speech
           -Separation of military and political issues
                -Clarity
     -Demeanor
           -Support for the President
                -Kissinger’s comment to Bryce N. Harlow
           -Congressional meeting
                -Budget meeting
                -Possible approach to the President or Kissinger
                -Effects
                      -Patrick J. Buchanan
                -Troop withdrawal for ceasefire and POWs or political issues
           -January 25, 1972 meeting
                -Agnew stance
                      -Ceasefire
                             -Effects
-North Vietnamese ceasefire terms
     -Troop withdrawal
     -Administration offer
           -Troop withdrawal for POWs
           -May 31, 1971 negotiations
                                              14

                              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


                            -Political proposal
                -Indication of weakness
                      -Laos and Cambodia
                      -South Vietnam
                      -Bombing
           -US aid to Thieu
                -North Vietnamese thinking
                -Michael J. Mansfield Amendment
                      -POWs
           -Administration defense
                -Kissinger
                -Rogers
                -Agnew
                      -Analogy to the President vis-à-vis Dwight D. Eisenhower
                -Football analogy
           -Support for US proposals
                -Agnew
                      -Compared to Congress
                -Congress
                      -Scott and Ford
                            -Meeting with Kissinger in Ziegler’s office
                -Press conference
                      -Ziegler
                      -Preparation by Kissinger
                -Kalb
                      -Possible interview with Kissinger

     The President’s forthcoming trip to the PRC

     Press conference
           -Ziegler

Kissinger left at 10:57 am.

                 -Timing
                      -Ziegler

     Public support for peace proposals
          -Mail
                -Quotes from Winston-Salem; Maryland; New York; Birmingham;
                      Philadelphia; Connecticut; Searsdale; Texas; Amherst; Columbia, South
                                                15

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


                     Carolina; Arlington, Texas; Wichita; La Grange Park, Illinois
                     -Frank L. Rizzo
                     -William A. Rago [?]
                     -Maureen Mullen [?] of Brooklyn
                     -Religious and minority groups
                     -Judge William Garbose of Massachusetts
                     -Mrs. Joseph Patrick Kennedy of Winnipeg
                     -Generation of peace, Adelphi [?], Illinois

Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:57 am.

     Biesheuvel meeting
          -Schedule
          -Protocol
               -Baron Rijnhard B. Van Lynden

Bull left at an unknown time before 11:02 am.

     PRC trip
         -Emil (“Bus”) Mosbacher, Jr.
         -Herbert G. Klein
              -Domestic matters
                    -Domestic Council
         -The President’s forthcoming trip to the Soviet Union

Haldeman left at 11:02 am.

Biesheuvel, Middendorf, and Haig entered at 11:02 am; the White House photographer was
present at the beginning of the meeting.

     Introductions
           -Seating arrangements
           -Photographs

     Biesheuvel’s schedule
          -Antilles and Surinam

     [Photograph session]

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 11:02 am.
                                                16

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                          Tape Subject Log
                                            (rev. 10/06)
                                                                       Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


     Refreshments

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 11:20 am.

     Travel
          -Indonesia
          -India
          -Indonesia
                -The President’s visits

     Colonial legacy
          -Jakarta, Indonesia
          -Education
          -The president’s conversation with Lt. Gen. T.N.J. Suharto
          -Antilles
          -Retention of influence
          -African and Caribbean nations
          -Nassau, Bahamas
                -Soviet Union
                -British withdrawal
                -Tourism
                -Transition pace
          -Indonesia
                -Relations with the Netherlands
                      -Brink of war in early 1960’s
                      -West Iran (West New Guinea)
                -Suharto
                -Inflation
                      -Progress
                -Possible visit by Biesheuvel
                      -Dutch professionals
                      -Suharto
                            -Sukarno
                      -Indonesian revolution
                      -State visit by Queen Juliana, 1971
                            -Students
                      -Suharto
          -US position in Pacific area
                -Edward R. G. Heath
                      -Singapore
                -Georges J.R. Pompidou
                                      17

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. 10/06)
                                                              Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


         -West Germany
               -Relations with Japan
    -The Netherlands’ role in world
         -European community
         -Inter-government committee
               -Financial aid to Indonesia
    -Japan’s role in world
    -Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia
    -Indonesia
         -Population
         -Geography
         -Natural resources
         -Java
               -Population
                     -Jakarta
    -Indonesia
    The Netherlands relations with the Pacific area
    -Surinam and Antilles
         -Role
               -Kingdom of the Netherlands
         -Foreign policy and defense
    -United Nations [UN]
         -Small nations
    -Antilles
         -Geography
         -English-speakers
         -Venezuela
               -Aruba
                     -Oil
         -Defense
    -Autonomy
         -Preparation for independence
         -African nations
    -The President’s previous trip around the world in 1953
         -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
    -The president’s meeting with Winston Churchill in 1958
         -Autonomy
         -Great Britain’s experience

Common market
   -National sovereignty
                                      18

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. 10/06)
                                                             Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


    -Great Britain
    -France
    -Economics
          -International trade
    -Political cooperation
    -Use of economic power
          -Effects
                -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]

Power centers
    -Brazil
    -Africa
    -Asia
          -Indonesia
    -US
    -Europe
    -Soviet Union
    -People’s Republic of China [PRC]
    -Japan
    -Coexistence with PRC, Soviet Union
          -Philosophical differences
    -Europe, Japan, US
          -Productivity
                -Compared to Communists
    -Monetary system, trade
    -Security
    -Japan
          -Economic power
          -Military
                -World War II
          -Reassurances by US, Europe
                -Treaty commitment
                -Nuclear deterrent
                -PRC, Soviet Union

Europe
     -NATO
         -West Germany
         -Forces
              -Unilateral reduction
                   -Soviet Union and Warsaw pact
                                            19

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 10/06)
                                                              Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


          -Sense of belonging
               -West Germany
                     -Soviet Union
                          -East Germany
                     -Willy Brandt
                     -Kurt Kiesinger
                     -Great Britain
                     -Ostpolitik
          -Unity
          -Konrad Adenauer
          -Alcide de Gasperi
          -Robert Schumann
          -Biesheuvel’s experience
          -The Netherlands’ role
               -World affairs

     Common Market
        -Statement
        -US role
              -Protectionism
        -Economic prospects
        -Britain
              -Heath
        -Pompidou
        -Compared to previous one
              -Rotterdam
                    -Perception of market
                    -Wars
                         -Manufacturing

     Attendance of ambassador
          -Protocol

     Rotterdam
          -Exports
               -Compared to New York
               -Common Market
                   -Trade
                        -West Germany

Van Lynden entered at 11:25 am.
                                        20

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                 Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)



Greetings

World affairs
    -US protectionist sentiment
           -US intentions
                 -Outward look
           -Reaction to possible European protectionism
                 -Japan
           -Europe, US, Canada, Japan cooperation
                 -Security
                 -Competition
    -Monetary matters
           -Group of Ten
    -Japan
           -The President’s talks with Heath, Brandt, Pompidou [?]
           -Group of Ten
           -Beliefs
                 -Compared to western world
                        -Economic self-interest
           -Political cooperation
                 -World War II
                 -[Emperor of Japan[ Hirohito
                        -Visit
           -Contributions
           -PRC
           -Soviet Union
           -Productivity
                 -World War II
           -Tanker purchase by Dutch
                 -Oil companies
                        -Dutch-Shell
    -US economic power
    -The President’s trip preparation for trips to PRC and Soviet Union
           -Meetings with European leaders
                 -Italy
    -Italy
           -Government
                 -Emilio Colombo
                 -French constitutionalism
    -Latin countries
                                        21

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


         -Italy, France, Spain
         -French Constitution
         -Fragmentation
         -France
               -Gen. Charles A.J.M. de Gaulle
                     -Political unity
               -Communist Party
         -De Gasperi
     -Meeting with Biesheuvel
         -Benefits
         -NATO
               -Netherlands as an ally
                     -Public opinion
               -Joseph M.A.H. Luns
                     -Manlio Brosio

The President’s forthcoming trips to the PRC and Soviet Union
     -Difference between trips
     -Enmities
           -US position vis-à-vis PRC and Soviet Union
           -Soviet Union relations with PRC
           -PRC
                 -Japan
                      -US, Soviet Union

PRC trip
    -US intentions
         -Contact
               -Prospects of recognition
                    -Taiwan, Republic of China
                          -US treaty commitments
               -Benefits
                    -Communication
                    -Reduction of chance of confrontation
                          -Korea
                          -Vietnam
                          -PRC nuclear power
         -PRC power
               -Population
         -Japan
         -US pacific responsibilities
                                           22

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                     (rev. 10/06)
                                                             Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


              -Gulf in philosophies between US and PRC
                   -Need to bridge gap
                         -Nuclear weapons
              -Nuclear weapons in PRC


**************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[National Security]
[Duration: 32s ]


    PRC


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

**************************************************************************


                   -Prospects
              -Soviet reaction to PRC trip
                   -Paranoia
                   -Bilateralism
              -PRC’s relationships
                   -Isolationism
                   -Soviet Union
                         -Hostile border
                   -US
                         -Korea
                         -Vietnam
                   -Japan
                   -India
                   -Rivalry with US, Soviet Union

    Defense spending
         -Biesheuvel’s conversation with William P. Rogers
         -Effect on Europe
         -The Netherlands
              -Increase in 1972
                                                23

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


          -NATO
          -Michael J. Mansfield amendment
          -Alternative uses
                -Ghettoes

     Soviet Union trip
          -Substantive nature
          -US relations with Soviet Union
               -Relations
               -Difference
               -Trade
               -Middle East
               -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
          -Europe
               -Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions [MBFR]
               -Arms limitation
                      -SALT
                             -Briefing of NATO countries
                             -US commitment to NATO
                             -Scope
          -Familiarity
               -Problems and benefits
               -Pragmatism
               -The President’s background
          -European discussions
          -European security conference
               -Rogers
               -Timing
               -Bilateral discussions
               -Benefits
               -Views
                      -Italy

Bull entered at an unknown time after 11:25 am.

     Rogers’s arrival

Bull left at an unknown time before 12:02 pm.

                     -Nicolae Ceausescu
                -Soviet intentions
                             24

          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                     Tape Subject Log
                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                     Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-US view
     -Need for security
            -Germany
            -NATO
            -Defense budgets
-Soviet aims
     -Germany
     -Loosening of Europe’s ties with US
-MBFR
     -Timing
     -Linkage to European Security Conference
            -US caution
     -Agreement among allies
            -Brosio
     -Danger of linkage to European Security Conference
-Cultural component
-Agenda
     -Andrei A. Gromyko
-Likelihood
-Eastern Europeans
     -The President’s previous travles
            -Poles, Romanians, Hungarians, Czechoslovakians
-Agenda
-Possible benefits
     -Communication, trade, security
-Germany
     -Italy
     -Brandt
            -Ostpolitik
-Rogers
-Gromyko
-MBFR
     -Rogers
     -Gromyko
     -Search for formula
            -Dutch domestic situation
                 -Multilateralism
            -NATO
-Need for caution
-Timing
                                        25

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                 Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


Forthcoming European meeting on monetary matters
     -Timing
          -Possible location
               -The Hague
                      -World Court
          -Europe’s relationship with Communist nations, Japan
          -Possible locations
               -Rivalries
               -London, Paris, Bonn, Rome
               -Brussels, Luxembourg, Strasbourg
               -The Hague
               -Belgium

The President’s schedule
     -Biesheuvel
          -Schedule
     -PRC and Soviet Union trips

State dinner, January 25, 1972
      -Van Lynden
      -Rogers
      -The president’s Vietnam peace proposal speech, January 25, 1972
           -Location
                 -Oval Office
           -Preparation
                 -Drafts
                       -Idiom
           -Michael J. Mansfield
                 -Rogers
           -Rogers
                 -Talk with the President
                       -Biesheuvel’s interest in television
           -Mass media impact on politics
      -Dutch cabinet sessions
           -Reporting
                 -Interviews

Dutch television
     -State involvement
           -Broadcasting companies
                                                26

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                          Tape Subject Log
                                            (rev. 10/06)
                                                                 Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


     Vietnam
          -The President’s peace proposal plan
                -Possible reaction in Europe
          -Elections
                -Thieu offer of resignation
                -International oversight
                -North Vietnamese reaction
          -Possible North Vietnamese military action
                -South Vietnam
                      -US aid
          -North Vietnam
                -Analogy to North Korea
          -Peace proposal plan
                -US troop withdrawal
                      -Political agreement
                -US aid to South Vietnam
                -Soviet and PRC aid to North Vietnam
          -Political agreement

     Biesheuvel’s schedule

     Briefcase

The President, et al. left at 12:02 pm.