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Conversation: 617-018

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Start Date: Friday, November 12, 1971 9:41 PM

End Date: Friday, November 12, 1971 10:55 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Richardson, Elliot L.Ehrlichman, John D.Bull, Stephen B.Haig, Alexander M., Jr.[Unknown person(s)]Atkins, Oliver F. ("Ollie")

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 02:27:12

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 03:41:36

617a.mp3

617b.mp3

617c.mp3

NARA Description:

On November 12, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Elliot L. Richardson, John D. Ehrlichman, Stephen B. Bull, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., unknown person(s), and Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:41 pm to 5:55 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 617-018 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 617-18

Date: November 15, 1971
Time: 4:41 pm - 5:55 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Elliot L. Richardson, John D. Ehrlichman and Stephen B. Bull.

     The President's schedule
          -Sultan Mohammad Khan
          -Maurice H. Stans
          -William P. Rogers and Henry A. Kissinger

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:20 pm.

     Constitutional amendment
          -Desegregation
                -Ronald W. Reagan
                -Richardson's memorandum
                -Busing
                     -Popular opinion
                           -Emotions
                           -Blacks
                -The President's possible position
                     -Howard H. Baker, Jr.
                     -Campaign issue
                -“60 Minutes” segment on Washingtonians' children in private schools
                     -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
                     -Mike Wallace
                     -Edmund S. Muskie
                     -George S. McGovern
                     -St. Alban's
                                        27

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                              Conv. No. 617-18(cont.)


               -Catholic private schools
               -Richardson
                     -Children and Ehrlichman's daughter
               -Interviews
                     -Nicholas von Hoffman
                     -Rev. Walter E. Fauntroy
                     -The President's daughters
                           -Horace Mann School
                           -Sidwell Friends
                     -Fauntroy
                           -Unknown women from Pontiac, Michigan
          -The President's decision
               -Conversation with John N. Mitchell
               -California Constitution
               -Conversation with Mitchell
               -House of Representatives
                     -Possible vote
               -Timing
               -Busing
               -Use of Constitution
               -Emergency School Aid Act
          -Samuel J. Ervin, Jr. Amendments to legislation
               -Compared with House amendment
               -Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW] and Justice
                      Department
               -Title VI
                     -Civil Rights Act of 1964

Education
    -Pending legislation
          -Senate
          -Richardson's conversation with Claiborne H. Pell
               -Amendments

Welfare
     -Reagan
          -Mitchell
          -[Work Relief Demonstration Project]
               -Possible resolution
                    -The President's schedule
                    -Status
                                        28

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 617-18(cont.)


                     -The President's role
                          -Nelson A. Rockefeller and Richard B. Ogilvie
          -Schedule
               -Mitchell
               -The Vice President [Spiro T. Agnew]
                     -Memorandum
          -Richardson's conversation with Reagan, November 12, 1971
          -Possible conversation with Richardson
               -Resolution
                     -Negotiation
                           -Cabinet level
          -Views regarding Robert H. Finch
               -John G. Veneman
          -Richardson’s role as negotiator
          -Conversations with the President
          -[Work Relief Demonstration Project]
               -House Resolution [HR] 1
               -Possible resolution
                     -Rockefeller
                     -Negotiations with Richardson
                           -Case load
                                -Employees

Child development legislation
     -Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO]
     -Legislative status
           -Day care services
                -Fee scale
     -Congress
     -Office of Management and Budget [OMB]
     -The President’s message
     -HR 1
           -Provisions
                -Intent
                       -Development
                            -Health defects screening
                            -Education
                                 -Head Start Program
     -Welfare reform
     -Funding
           -Head Start
                                    29

                NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                            Tape Subject Log
                              (rev. 10/06)
                                                        Conv. No. 617-18(cont.)


      -Day care
            -Social Security Act
                   -Title IV
            -States
      -HR 1
-Eligibility for financial assistance
      -Level of free care
            -Cost
-Cost
-Possible veto
      -Richardson's testimony
-Cost
      -HR 1
      -Notch problem
            -Harrison A. Williams, Jr.
            -Disincentive to work
                   -Medicaid
                   -Senate Finance Committee
                         -1970 hearings
                   -Family health insurance
                         -Graduated scale of payments
      -Graduated scale of payments
-Work for welfare mothers
-Cost
-Possible veto
-Implementation
-Congressional interests
      -Conservatives
      -John Brademas-Ronald V. Dellums faction
-Decision
      -Timing
-Status
      -Congressional committees
            -Labor and public welfare
            -Education and labor
-OEO legislation
-Problems
-Jacob K. Javits's efforts
-OEO legislation
-Javits
      -Conversations with Richardson
                                              30

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                       Conv. No. 617-18(cont.)


                     -Possible veto

     Value Added Tax [VAT]
          -Property tax reform
          -Ehrlichman's possible conversations
                -Richardson
                -John B. Connally

     Education
         -Aid to private schools
               -Possible opposition
               -Catholics
               -Property tax relief
               -National Education Association
               -Richardson's meetings with [Forename unknown] Msgr. Hopewald [sp?]
                     -National Defense Education Act of 1958
               -Richardson's contacts with Catholics
                     -Terence Cardinal Cooke
         -Washington Post article regarding Reuben O. Askew
               -Issues
                     -Taxes
                     -Race

     Askew
         -Compared to James E. (“Jimmy”) Carter
         -Constituency

     Education
         -The President's position
         -Desegregation

Stans, Rogers and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. entered at 5:20 pm.

     Stans's forthcoming trip to Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]

     Secretary of Agriculture

Richardson and Ehrlichman left at 5:21 pm.
                                       31

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. 10/06)
                                                              Conv. No. 617-18(cont.)


HEW
   -Richardson's handling
   -Finch's health

Richardson
     -Harvard University
     -Boxing

Stans's forthcoming trip to USSR
     -Originality
     -Public interest
     -The President’s forthcoming trip to USSR

USSR foreign trade
    -Andrei A. Gromyko
    -Link
          -Political accommodation
    -US share
    -Stans's forthcoming trip to USSR
    -Arms control
    -US exports
          -Value to USSR
                -Compared to US
    -Hungary
    -Romania
    -US negotiations with USSR
          -Conference on European Security
          -Mutual and Balance Force Reduction [MBFR]
          -Berlin
    -US business interest
          -Donald McI. Kendall
          -Effect on negotiations
    -Stans's forthcoming trip to USSR
          -Export-import credits
          -Most favored nation [MFN] status
    -Joint ventures with foreign companies
          -Compared with US joint ventures with foreign companies
                -Romania, Yugoslavia
          -Natural resources
                -Oil, gas, copper
                -Product sharing
                                               32

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                       Conv. No. 617-18(cont.)


                      -Natural gas
                           -Compared to Algerian venture

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 5:21 pm.

     Photographer

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 5:50 pm.

     Stans's forthcoming trip to USSR
          -US relations with the USSR
          -Conference on European Security

Oliver F. (“Ollie”) Atkins entered at an unknown time after 5:21 pm.

           -The President's forthcoming trip

Atkins left at an unknown time before 5:50 pm.

     USSR foreign trade
         -Assets
              -Gold
                     -Reserves
              -Petroleum
              -Chrome
         -Stans's forthcoming trip
              -Credit
              -MFN status
         -Linkage
              -Political accommodation
                     -MFN
                     -Export-Import Bank
                     -Vietnam
                     -Joint venture
         -Manufactured goods
              -Machine tools
              -USSR economy
         -Technology
              -Ford Motor Company and General Motors [GM]
              -Stans’s comments to business
                     -License fees
                                            33

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 10/06)
                                                           Conv. No. 617-18(cont.)



Stans's forthcoming trip to USSR
     -Stans’s possible strategy
     -Soviets
            -Japan
     -Itinerary
            -Leningrad
            -Georgia
                 -Baku
                 -Tbilisi
            -Samarkand
            -Tashkent
            -Samarkand
                 -Genghis Khan
                 -Tamerlane
            -Asiatic citizens
                 -Unknown place
                        -Valley of Apples
            -Siberia
                 -Sverdlovsk
            -Lake Baikel
            -Moscow
                 -Kremlin
                 -Subway

People's Republic of China [PRC]
     -Civil defense preparations
           -Rogers's conversation with Pakistan diplomat
                -Peking
                      -Underground tunnels
                           -Kissinger
                           -Analogy to US civil defense
                                 -Dwight D. Eisenhower
                                                 34

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                Conv. No. 617-18(cont.)


**************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[National Security]
[Duration: 9s ]


    PRC


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

**************************************************************************


               -The president's conversation with a foreigner
          -Korean War
               -Chinese intervention
                     -James D. (“Don”) Hughes’s experience
                          -Yalu River
          -Population

    USSR
        -Population
        -William C. Bullitt

    Stans's forthcoming trip
         -Sweden
         -Warsaw
                -John A. Volpe's previous trip
         -Sweden
                -Relations with US
         -Warsaw
                -Relations with US
                     -MFN status
                     -Credit
                     -Romania
         -Possible comments
                -Stans’s experience
                     -Politics
                           -MFN
                                         35

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 10/06)
                                                                  Conv. No. 617-18(cont.)


                      -Credits
                      -Need for new policies
                      -The President’s forthcoming trip to USSR
                      -1972 election
         -Vietnam
         -Stans’s experience
     -USSR
         -Nikita S. Khrushchev's book
              -1960 election
         -Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
         -The President's character
         -The President's conversation with Josip Broz Tito
              -Leonid I. Brezhnev and Aleksei N. Kosygin

The President's previous meeting with Congressmen
     -Budget
          -Continuing resolution
                 -Mitchell's opinion
                 -Allen J. Ellender
                 -Public services
                 -Vietnam
                 -Anti-Deficiency Act
                      -Provisions
                 -Previous occurrences
                      -Authorizations
                 -Foreign aid
                 -Michael J. Mansfield

John C. Stennis
     -Call from Rogers
           -Richard B. Russell's death
     -Conversation with the President
           -National defense
           -Senate

The President's previous conversation with George E. Allen
     -Dwight D. Eisenhower
     -Stennis
          -Supreme Court
                 -William J. Brennan, Jr.
                                               36

                              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 10/06)
                                                                    Conv. No. 617-18(cont.)


      Stans's forthcoming trip
           -Negotiating strategy
                  -US business
                  -Stans’s possible comments
           -The President's schedule
                  -Stans’s schedule

      North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO] Ambassadorship
           -Peter M. Flanigan's efforts
                 -Mansfield D. Sprague
           -Walter J. Stoessel, Jr.
           -Charles D. (“Tex”) Thornton
           -Sprague
           -Flanigan

Stans. et al., left at 5:55 pm.