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Conversation: 613-012

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Start Date: Thursday, November 4, 1971 1:24 PM

End Date: Thursday, November 4, 1971 2:50 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Colson, Charles W.Shultz, George P.[Unknown person(s)]Burns, Arthur F.Butterfield, Alexander P.Woods, Rose MaryHaldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Bull, Stephen B.Kissinger, Henry A.

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 02:54:45

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 04:22:53

613a.mp3

613b.mp3

613c.mp3

613d.mp3

NARA Description:

On November 4, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, George P. Shultz, unknown person(s), Arthur F. Burns, Alexander P. Butterfield, Rose Mary Woods, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:24 am to 9:50 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 613-012 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 613-12

Date: November 4, 1971
Time: 8:24 am - 9:50 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Charles W. Colson and George P. Shultz.

     National economy
          -Pay Board
                -News stories
                     -News summaries
                     -Leonard Woodcock
                -Business’s proposition
                -Daniel L. Schorr's story
                -Colson's meeting with Weldon L[amar] Mathis, teamster
                -Schorr's story
                     -Paul A. Porter
                -Administration strategy
                -Possible agreement
                -Administration strategy
                     -George Meany's possible action
                     -Arnold R. Weber
                     -Possible extension of freeze
                            -Duration
                            -Status of freeze
                            -Teachers
                            -Auto workers
                            -Colson's possible conversation with Jay Lovestone
          -Rate of wage increase
                -Consumer Price Index [CPI]
                -Assumptions
                -CPI
                     -Inflation

Alexander P. Butterfield entered at an unknown time after 8:24 am.

     The President's schedule
                                              28

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                  Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)



The unknown man left at an unknown time before 9:14 am.

     National economy
          -Rate of wage increase
                -Inflation
                -Productivity
                -Mathis
                      -Frank E. Fitzsimmons
                      -Views regarding Woodcock's formula
                            -Meany
          -Pay Board
                -Colson's conversation with Fitzsimmons
                The President’s possible television appearance
                -Schorr's story, November 3, 1971

     Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
         -Schorr
              -Colson’s conversation with Frank Stanton
         -Cable television
         -Schorr

     National economy
          -Freeze
                -Wholesale Price Index [WPI]
                      -Paul W. McCracken's analysis
                -Interest rates
                      -Inflation
          -New York Times story
                -Automobile sales
                      -Wall Street Journal
                -Unemployment
          -Stock market
                -Washington Post story
          -Employment
                -Seasonal
                      -The President’s conversation with Colson
                -Private sector
          -Unemployment
          -Status
          -Money supply
                                  29

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                           Tape Subject Log
                             (rev. 10/06)
                                                           Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


     -Arthur F. Burns's view
     -Shultz's call to Milton Friedman, November 3, 1971
     -Federal Reserve Board [FRB]
-Freeze
     -Effect
            -Friedman’s view
            -Extension
-Money supply
     -Peter M. Flanigan's possible actions
            -Call to brokers
                  -Burns
            -Gustave L. Levy
            -Bernard J. (“Bunny”) Lasker
     -The President's possible memorandum to Burns
     -Burns
     -William Jennings Bryant
            -Greenback Party
     -Leonard S. Silk's article in the New York Times, November 3, 1971
     -Colson's possible actions
            -William L. Safire
     -Silk
     -Silk's article
     -The President's forthcoming memorandum to Burns
            -Silk's article
                  -Burns’s committee
                         -Interest rates
                               -Monetary school
                               -Decline
                                     -Effect on money supply
-Economic indicators
     -WPI
     -CPI
     -Inflation
     -Burns
-Shultz's talk at Calvin Bullock Forum, November 4, 1971
-Pay Board
     -Schorr's story
            -Shultz's previous conversation with Stanton
-WPI
-Freeze
     -Effect
                                              30

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                       Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


                     -Inflation
           -Economic expansion
           -Money supply
                -The President's forthcoming letter to Burns

The President dictated a letter to Arthur F. Burns at an unknown time between 8:24 am and 9:07
am.

[Conversation No. 613-12A]

     National economy
          -Money supply
                -Silk's article
                -Committee on interest rates
                -Calls to the President
                      -Timing
                             -Quadriad meeting
                      -Wall Street
                             -FRB policy
                             -Comparison to 1959-60 period
                                  -William McChesney Martin
                                  -1960 election
                -Elections
                      -Interest rates, cost of living
                      -Unemployment
                      -Inflation
                -FRB
                      -Economic expansion
                             -1972
                                  -Compared to 1960
                -Distribution
                      -Quadriad
                      -John B. Connally
                -Concerns
                      -Financial communities
                             -New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, St. Louis, Chicago, Atlanta
                -Silk

[End of dictation]

     National economy
                                   31

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                           Tape Subject Log
                             (rev. 10/06)
                                                            Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


-Money supply
      -Burns
      -Effect on interest rates
            -The President’s letter to Burns
      -The President's letter to Burns
            -Silk
            -Burns's possible reaction
                  -The record
-Economic indicators
      -The President’s conversation with Colson, November 3, 1971
            -Shultz
            -James D. Hodgson
      -Status
            -Stock market, WPI, retail credit, automobile sales, unemployment
            -Burns
-Trade deficit
-Freeze
      -Prices
-Unemployment
-Shultz's role
      -Burns
      -Budget
-Construction funds
      -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
-Third quarter statistics
      -Retail sales figures for August
-Statistics
      -Budgets during Lyndon B. Johnson's administration
      -Importance
      -Wilson Allen Wallis of the University of Rochester
            -Schedule
                  -Indira Gandhi dinner
                        -The President
                              -Commission on Statistics report
-Economic indicators
      -Third quarter
            -Retail sales
            -Inventories
            -Trade
                  -Exports
                        -Gross National Product [GNP]
                                               32

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 10/06)
                                                                    Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


                       -Rates of increase
                            -Figures
           -Money supply
           -Retail sales

Butterfield entered at an unknown time after 8:24 am.

     The President's schedule

Butterfield left at an unknown time before 9:07 am.


The President talked with an unknown man [H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman?] at an unknown time
between 8:24 am and 9:07 am.

[Conversation No. 613-12B]

     The President's schedule
          -Rose Mary Woods

     James R. (“Jimmy”) Hoffa

     [William?] Loeb

[End of telephone conversation]

     Robert H. Finch
         -Forthcoming trip to Latin America
                -Shultz's conversation with Nelson A. Rockefeller

Rose Mary Woods entered at an unknown time after 8:24 am.

     The President's letter to Burns
          -The President's review

Woods left at an unknown time before 9:07 am.

     National economy
          -Money supply
                -The President's letter to Burns
                Silk
                                             33

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                     Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


                -The President's friends in New York
                      -J. Donald Rollins
                -Burns
                      -Elections
                -Shultz's forthcoming conversation with Friedman
           -Soviet corn deal
                -Negotiations
                      -Status
                -Possible announcement

     Canada
         -Negotiations with the US
             -Paul A. Volcker
             -The President's conversation with Henry A. Kissinger
                    -Peter G. Peterson and Shultz

     Latin America
           -Connally's schedule
           -Proposed action
                -Timing

Shultz left at 9:07 am.

     Hoffa
          -Loeb
          -Clark Mollenhoff
               -Relations with Colson
               -Possible conversation with Colson
                    -Conditions
                          -Labor movement
                    -Parole
                    -Executive clemency
               -Forthcoming book
                    -The President’s treatment of organized crime
               -Possible conversation with Colson
                    -Parole Board
                          -Possible parole
                                -Summer 1972

     National economy
          -Money supply
                                             34

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                     Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


                -The President's letter to Burns
                -Burns
                     -Trip to New York
                     -Calvin Bullock Forum
                     -Possible dinner
                           -Flanigan
                     -Flanigan’s call to Colson, November 4, 1971
                     -Colson
                           -New York
                -Schorr

     CBS
           -Schorr
                -Stanton

     National economy
          -Pay Board
                -Schorr

     Congress
         -Clark MacGregor's views
              -Press reports
                   -J. William Fulbright and Michael J. Mansfield

Haldeman entered at 9:14 am.

     Public broadcasting
          -Flanigan
          -Congress
          -Possible cut in funds
                -Personnel changes
          -Possible staff changes
                -Frank Pace, Jr.
                -John W. Macy, Jr.
          -Pace
          -Abuses
                -Dossier
          -Flanigan's schedule
                -Pace, John D. (“Jack”) Wrather, Jr. and Fred? Coe
          -Possible attacks
                -Samuel L. Devine
                                         35

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                     (rev. 10/06)
                                                                  Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


          -Investigation
          -Clarence J. (“Bud”) Brown
          -William J. Scherle
                -Tricia Nixon Cox
     -Funding
     -Possible personnel changes

White House staff
     -Russell E. Train's statement regarding environment and national security
          -John D. Ehrlichman and John C. Whitaker
          -Story
                -Court
          -Kissinger

Environment
     -National security
     -Environmentalists
     -Train's statement
          -Story

Shultz
     -McCracken
     -Hodgson
     -Possible statement on national economy
          -WPI

Vietnam
     -Melvin R. Laird
          -Casualty figures
     -Casualties
          -Reporting method
     -Laird

National economy
     -Possible news stories
     -Money supply
     -Automobile sales
           -Psychological effect
     -GNP
           -Third quarter
                -Shultz
                                                36

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


           -Money supply
               -The President letter to Burns

Colson left at 9:20 am.

                -Arthur B. Laffer
                      -Shultz
           -Flanigan
                -Burns
           -Burns
                -Visit to New York
                      -Money supply question


**************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 32s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10

**************************************************************************


     The President's schedule
          -Luis Echeverria Alvarez
                -Houston
          -State Dinner
                -Miami
                      -Willy Brandt
          -Echeverria
                -State Dinner
                      -San Diego
                -Washington, DC
                -Houston
          -Trip to the People's Republic of China [PRC]
                -Theodore H. White
                      -Possible attendance
                      -Possible conversation with Ronald L. Ziegler
                                             37

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                   Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


                          -Time-Life meeting
                               -Timing
                               -Decision regarding the President
                               -Henry A. Grunwald
                               -Hedley W. Donovan
                          -Newsweek

    White House relations with press
         -Time and Newsweek
              -Supreme Court story
         -Stewart J.O. Alsop
         -Henry Hubbard
         -Time magazine
              -The President's conversation with Ehrlichman
                    -Supreme Court story

    News magazines
        -Effect of economic freeze
             -Costs
             -Press
                    -Escalators
                    -Pay rate

    Foreign aid program
         -The President's schedule
               -Allen J. Ellender dinner
         -Cooper-Church Amendment
               -William P. Rogers
               -White House reaction
                     -Committee bill
                           -Senate
         -Vietnam
               -Troop withdrawal rate
         -The President's possible actions
               -Mansfield breakfast
               -MacGregor

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal Returnable]
                                               38

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


[Duration: 26s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

*****************************************************************


     Administration staff
         -Age
               -Undersecretary of Agriculture
               -Commerce
                     -Peter G. Peterson
               -Compared to the President
                     -Mitchell
         -Secretary of Agriculture
               -Earl L. Butz
                     -Age
                     -Name
               -Bryce N. Harlow
               -Butz
                     -Qualities
               -Harlow

     National economy
          -Figures

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 9:20 am.

     Unknown man [Kissinger?]
         -Meeting with the President

Bull left at an unknown time before 9:35 am.

     Kissinger
          -Media
               -United Nations [UN] vote on Taiwan
               -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
               -Haldeman’s conversation with Kissinger
               -Maxine Cheshire
               -Haldeman’s conversation with Kissinger
                                                 39

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


                       -Julie Nixon Eisenhower

     Vietnam
          -Troop withdrawal
               -Announcement

     The President's schedule
          -December 1971

     White House staff
          -Morale
              -Colson
              -MacGregor
              -Donald H. Rumsfeld
                    -Wage and price boards
                        -Public reaction

Henry A. Kissinger entered at 9:35 am.

     Memorandum

     [Indira Gandhi]

     Haig

     Kissinger's schedule
          -Florida
          -Washington Star

     The President's schedule
          -Florida
                -Mitchell
                -Kissinger
                      -Schedule
                      -Haig
                      -W. Kenneth Riland
                      -Foreign policy concern

Rose Mary Woods entered at 9:37 am.

                       -Schedule
                                              40

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 10/06)
                                                                        Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


                            -Washington Star lunch


*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 6s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6

*****************************************************************


                      -Florida
                            -Woods
                                -Riland

     The President’s letter to Riland

Woods left at 9:39 am.

Haldeman left at 9:40 am.

     India-Pakistan relations
           -Pakistani military disposition
                -Unilateral withdrawal
           -The President's forthcoming conversation with Mrs. Gandhi
                -Arms supply
                -Agha Muhommad Yahya Khan's proposals
                      -Unilateral withdrawal
                      -Mujibur Rahman
                      -Possible meeting with Bangladesh leader
                -US-Indian relations
                      -Diplomatic relations
                            -Treaty
                            -Ideals
                                  -Progress, peace
                      -US objectives
                      -US actions
                                          41

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


                     -Relief, civilian government, amnesty, unilateral withdrawal
          -Soviet-Indian Friendship Pact
               -India’s non-aligned status
          -Possible conflict with Pakistan
               -Gandhi's forthcoming conversation with Rogers, November 5. 1971
          -Mujibur
               -Release
                     -Possible effect
                           -Yahya Khan

The PRC
     -Compared to Indians

Kissinger's dinner at Joseph W. Alsop's
     -Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson
           -Views regarding other Democrats
           -Previous comments
                 -Timing
                       -Vietnam
                 -Edmund S. Muskie
           -Foreign aid
           -Comments regarding the President
                 -Stewart Alsop

Joseph Alsop
     -Conversations with Kissinger
          -Comments regarding the President
     -Gerald R. Ford, Leslie C. Arends

The President
     -Conversation with Josip Broz Tito
     -Unknown writing

India-Pakistan
      -Pakistani proposals
           -International relief
           -Amnesty
           -Mujibur Rahman
           -Civilian government
           -Arms supply
           -Unilateral withdrawal
                                           42

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                     (rev. 10/06)
                                                                  Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)


         -The President's forthcoming conversation with Gandhi
              -Yahya Khan
                    -India's options
                          -Accommodation
              -Compared to war


*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9
[National Security]
[Duration: 35s ]


    INDIA-PAKISTAN RELATIONS


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9

*****************************************************************


         -Ganhi
         -Indian press
         -The President's forthcoming conversations with Gandhi
               -Tone


**************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11
[National Security]
[Duration: 24s ]


    INDIA


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11

**************************************************************************
                                             43

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                    Conv. No. 613-12 (cont.)




Kissinger left at 9:50 am.