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Conversation: 578-005

Prev: 578-004 Next: 578-006

Start Date: Friday, September 24, 1971 2:33 PM

End Date: Friday, September 24, 1971 3:44 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Bull, Stephen B.Friedman, MiltonShultz, George P.Atkins, Oliver F. ("Ollie")Sanchez, Manolo

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 01:21:38

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 02:35:09

578a.mp3

578b.mp3

NARA Description:

On September 24, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, Milton Friedman, George P. Shultz, Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:33 am to 11:44 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 578-005 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 578-5

Date: September 24, 1971
Time: 10:33 am – 11:44 am
                                              17

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                  Conv. No. 578-4 (cont.)


Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     Dinner
          -Arthur F. Burns
               -Invitation
               -Concern

     The President’s trip to the Detroit Economic Club
          -Press coverage
               -Questions and answers
                      -"Today Show"
                            -Time and length of filming
                            -Ecology
                            -Employment
                            -Phase II
                            -Surcharge
                            -Interest rates
                            -Supreme Court
                      -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
                            -Time length

     Astronauts' visit to White House
          -Helen A. Thomas
          -Coverage
                -News summary
                -President as tour guide
          -Lucy A. Winchester
                -Coverage (press story)
                       -President as tour guide for White House
                             -History
                                  -Abraham Lincoln
                                  -Emancipation Proclamation
                                  -Lincoln bedroom
                                  -Winston S. Churchill story
                                  -Lincoln Sitting Room
                                  -Secret staircase
                                  -Locked doors
                                  -Children
                       -Type of story
                                             18

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                        Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


         -Thomas
             -Type of stories
                  -"Back stairs at the White House" story
                        -United Press International [UPI] service

    President's People's Republic of China [PRC] initiative
         -Donald H. Rumsfeld
                -Japan
                     -Relationship with Japanese legislators
                           -Public relations aspect
         -Latin America
                -Robert H. Finch
         -Rumsfeld and Finch
                -Possible appearance in small Latin American countries
                     -Taiwan
                           -United Nations [UN]
                                -Taiwan seat
                           -World politics
                           -Domestic politics
                                -Conservatives
                                       -Seating of PRC in Security Council
         -UN


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[National Security]
[Duration: 11s ]


    TAIWAN


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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               -UN votes
                   -Small actions
                                             19

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


                           -Compared to US and Great Britain
                           -George H.W. Bush
                -Personal representatives
                -Haldeman
                     -Possible conversations
                           -Bush
                           -Henry A. Kissinger

     President's schedule
          -Planning Board of White House Conference on Aging
                 -Executive Office Building [EOB]
                 -Purpose
                      -The President’s Chicago speech
                      -President's interest
                 -Time
                      -Length of day
                            -Arthur S. Flemming

     Press coverage of administration
           -Questions and answers [Q&A]
                -Future events
                -Amount of preparation
                      -Phase II
                      -International monetary situation
                      -PRC
                      -Soviet Union
                      -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
                      -National defense
                      -Budget
           -Televised press conference
                -Preparation
                -Ronald L. Ziegler
                      -Speech in California

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:33 am.

          -Kissinger
               -Location
                     -California

     Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                                                20

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                 Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


          -Vietnam

Bull left at an unknown time before 11:03 am.

     Kissinger's schedule
          -Speaking appearances
                -Dinner
                      -Taft Schreiber
                      -Number of people
                      -Coverage
                -David Frost
                      -CBS
                      -National Broadcasting Corporation [NBC]
                      -American Broadcasting Company [ABC]
                -Philadelphia meeting
                      -President's approval
                            -Hugh Scott
                      -Princeton University
                      -Yale University
                      -Oklahoma
                      -Ohio State University
                      -University of Illinois
                -University of Chicago
                -Northwestern University
                      -Comparison to Illinois
                -Harvard
                -Yale
                -Princeton University
                      -New Jersey
                -Rutgers University
                -Ohio State
                -Number of people
                      -City
                            -US
                -Television coverage
          -University appearances

     Jewish sector
          -Impact for administration
          -John N. Mitchell
                -Speaking appearances
                                        21

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                  Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


     -Money
           -Impact for administration
           -Kissinger's speaking appearances
     -Contributions
           -Israel
           -Amount of money
           -Jewish sector
     -Staff
           -Murray M. Chotiner
                 -Unknown Israeli General
                      -Moshe Dayan
                      -Jewish support in US
     -Jewish support
           -Support for President
           -Israel
                 -US aid

Press relations
      -The President's trip to the Detroit Economic Club
            -Questions asked
                  -Effect
                        -Precision
                        -Dullness
                        -Politeness
            -Advance man
                  -[Unknown advance man]
            -Dwight L. Chapin
                  -Conversation with [Forename unknown] Sisler [?] and Director
            -Television coverage
            -Types of questions
                  -Henry C. Cashen, II
                  -Restrictions
                        -Future situations
                              -Campaign
                              -Types of questions
                                    -Public desire
                                    -Good questions
                  -Citizens' panel in Detroit
                  -Questions
                  -Television coverage
            -Past situation
                                  22

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                          Tape Subject Log
                            (rev. 10/06)
                                                            Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


           -Type of questions
                 -Timing
     -Screening questions
           -Telephone call-ins
           -Telethon
     -Citizens' panel in Detroit
-National television
     -Questions
           -Phase II
           -Peter G. Peterson
-IMF
     -President's appearance
           -Speech
           -Decision
     -President's conversation with Burns and John B. Connally
           -President's appearance
                 -Peterson
     -President's appearance
           -Connally's analysis
                 -American audience
           -Reception
                 -Speech
                       -Impact for economics
     -George P. Shultz
     -Paul W. McCracken
           -Free market
     -Shultz
           -President's speech
                 -Connally's impact
     -President's knowledge
-Detroit Economic Club speech
     -President's speech
           -Knowledge
           -Balance
           -National television
           -US interests
                 -Applause
-American audience
     -Information
           -IMF
                 -Confusion
                                          23

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 10/06)
                                                                Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


                      -Businessmen compared to general public
                      -Barriers to trade
     -Questions asked
           -Press conference
                 -Detroit Economic Club
                 -Type of question asked regarding PRC
                      -Connally
                            -Trip to Europe
                      -President's response
                            -John Foster Dulles's diplomacy
           -Type of question
                 -Tone, format, content
                      -Type of response
                 -Point of question
                      -Response
     -Patrick J. Buchanan
           -Responses
                 -Number of words

President's schedule
     -Federal Communications Commission [FCC]
            -Senator John L. McClellan
                  -Mitchell's opinion
                  -Cable television
                  -Friend of administration
     -President Moktar Ould Daddah of Mauritania
            -President of organization of African unity
                  -Attendance
                        -Five foreign ministers
                        -William P. Rogers
                        -David D. Newsome
                        -Length of time
     -Farewell call
            -Bogdan Crnobrnja
                  -Belgrade, Yugoslavia
            -Public relations
                  -Josip Broz Tito
     -Future situations
     -Agha Hilaly of Pakistan
            -Conversation
            -Presidential gift
                                             24

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


                    -Wristwatch
               -Kissinger
               -Farewell call
                    -Meeting with the President
                          -Pictures
         -Farewell calls
               -Future
               -Procedure
         -Informal dinner with million dollar contributors


**************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 32 ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8



              -Location
                     -Camp David
              -Timing
                     -Phase II announcement
              -Stag dinner
              -Length
              -Elkins, West Virginia
              -Helicopter trip
                     -Camp David
                           -Returns
         -Editorial writers
              -Pittsburgh
                     -Meeting with the President
                           -Date
                                 -Forthcoming announcement about visit to Soviet Union

    Press relations
          -Questions and answers
                -Subjects
                                                  25

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


                -Ziegler
                -California trip
                      -Questions posed
                      -John A. Scali
                            -President's action
          -Stories
          -National television
                -Oval Office press conference
                -Idea of performance
                      -President's knowledge

     William M. Magruder
          -Meeting
              -Research and development [R&D]

     Editorial

Milton Friedman and George P. Shultz entered and Haldeman left at 11:03 am; Oliver F.
(“Ollie”) Atkins was present at the beginning of this meeting.

     Greetings

     Introductions

     Testimony

     Photographs

     General conversation
         -Photographs
         -Meeting
         -Burns
         -Connally

     US foreign economic policies
          -IMF
               -Burns
                    -Conversation with the President
                         -Rogers
                         -Maurice H. Stans
                         -US position
                                             26

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                     Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


                               -Gold prices
                                     -Henry S. Reuss
                                     -William Proxmire
                          -Europe and Japan
                               -Possible recession
                                     -Inflation
                                     -US
                          -Burns’s position
                               -Fixed currency rates
               -Connally
               -Burns
                     -Surcharge
                     -Capital controls
                           -European reactions
                           -Quotas
                                 -Steel, oil
          -Capital controls program
               -Problems
               -Rejection
               -Burns

Unknown person [Manolo Sanchez?] entered at an unknown time after 11:03 am.

     Refreshments
          -Coffee
          -Tea

Unknown person [Sanchez?] left at an unknown time before 11:44 am.

     US foreign economic policies
          -Connally
          -Memorandum to administration and Burns from Friedman
               -October1968
               -Close gold window
               -Capital controls
          -The President's conversation with Burns, September 24
               -Connally
                     -International economists
                     -Popular belief of failure
                           -Trip abroad
                           -Connally's position
                                     27

                NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                            Tape Subject Log
                              (rev. 10/06)
                                                     Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


                      -Timing
-World situation
      -President's action
-Connally
      -Press criticism
      -Sensitivity
      -European trip
      -Lyndon B. Johnson
      -Capabilities
-Dinner party given by Shultz
      -Date
      -Connally
      -Friedman
      -Ezra Solomon
      -John D. Ehrlichman
-Controls on wages and prices
      -Political problems
            -Domestic scene
-International scene
      -US position
            -Success
-Gold prices
      -Raise
      -Lower
      -Elimination
      -Meaning
      -Burns's explanation
            -Ritual of economics
      -Convertibility
            -Camp David meeting
            -Burns's position
                  -Mystique
      -Political implications
      -Hypothetical situation
            -Central banker
            -Congressmen
                  -Dollar standard
                        -Response
      -Domestic front
-Changes in the price of gold
      -Impact
                                    28

                NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                            Tape Subject Log
                              (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


      -Dollar amounts
      -Europeans' position
           -Maintenance of sales
      -Benefits for US
      -Future implications
-Import surcharge
      -Possible changes
           -Date
                  -Time length
      -Benefits for US
           -Japanese yen
                  -Float
           -German mark
                  -Pressure
      -Equilibrium of prices
           -Percent
                  -Japanese yen
                        -Depreciation
           -Willingness for depreciation by foreign countries
                  -Japan
      -Reductions in trade barriers
           -Numerical shift of balance of payments
           -Present system
           -Flexibility in currencies
           -Productivity
      -Possible illusions
      -Surcharge and exchange rate
           -Imports compared to imports and exports
                  -Definition related to surcharge and exchange rates
           -Equilibrium
                  -Removal of surcharge
                  -Aid to export companies
           -Agriculture industry
                  -Reactions to raising surcharge
                        -Exporters
           -American goods
                  -Lower prices
                        -Impact on farmers
                             -Agricultural commodities
           -Pro agriculture position
-Protectionism in US
                                 29

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                          Tape Subject Log
                            (rev. 10/06)
                                                          Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


     -Previous Cabinet meeting
     -American foreign policy
           -1916-1968
                 -[Thomas] Woodrow Wilson
                 -Benevolent paternalism
     -Changing American policy
           -Benevolent paternalism to cooperative partnerships
           -Possible speech
           -Questions
           -Opportunities
                 -Competition
-Import surcharge
     -Importance
           -Deadline
                 -Date
     -Suspension of surcharge
           -Plan
                 -Stipulation
                       -Floating currencies
           -General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade [GATT] rules
           -Latin America
     -GATT rules
           -US position
                 -Violation
                       -Belief
-Floating currencies
     -Japan, Great Britain, France, West Germany
     -Canada
     -Germany
           -Qualifications
-US position
     -Japan, Britain
           -Importance
           -Surcharge
           -Floating currency
           -Trade
     -Japan
           -Automobiles
                 -US sales
                       -Percentage
                             -Date
                                         30

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 10/06)
                                                                    Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


                -Surcharge
                     -Removal
                -Yen
                     -Appreciation
                     -Value
                           -Automobile industry
                     -Effect
                     -Political consideration

US domestic economic policies

US international economic policies
     -Prohibition of private ownership and purchase of gold
           -Elimination
           -Current action
                 -Shultz
                 -Connally
                       -Bureaucracy
                       -Timing
                       -Note from Shultz
                             -US patriotism
                                   -Ownership of gold
                                   -Pros and cons
                             -US legislation
                                   -Executive Order
                                   -Treasury Department position
                 -Gold Reserve Act
                       -Section Three
                             -Regulation by Secretary of Treasury
                                   -Holding of gold
                       -Executive Order
           -Executive Order
                 -Political question
                       -Conservatives
           -Gold Reserve Act
                 -History
                       -Date of establishment
                       -Purpose
                             -Prohibiting private profit
                             -Franklin D. Roosevelt
                       -Expropriation
                                        31

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/06)
                                                                 Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


                           -Comparison
                                -Fidel Castro
                                -Chile
                                      -Anaconda Company
                           -Roosevelt
                           -Connally

US domestic economic policies
    -Bureaucracy
          -Changes
                 -Opposition
                       -Government reorganization
                       -Revenue sharing
                       -Welfare reform
                       -Congress
                       -Opposition to change
    -Economic goals
          -Price control
          -Possible dangers
                 -Suppression of inflation
                       -Congressman
                            -Cost of Living Council [COLC]
                            -Spending more money
                                  -Federal Reserve Board [FRB]
                                        -Printing more money
    -Political factors
          -1972 election
                 -Upsurge of prices
          -1970 recession
          -Possibility of another recession
                 -1974
                 -Setback of economic goals
                 -Democratic victory
    -Avoidance of recession
          -Money supply
                 -Burns
                 -Congress
                       -Deficit
                 -FRB
                 -Increase
                 -Burns
                                 32

              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                         Tape Subject Log
                           (rev. 10/06)
                                                   Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


           -Rate of increase
                -Percent
           -Directions
                -Repercussions
           -Expansion
                -Positive movement
                -Figures
                      -Retail sales
                      -Auto sales
                            -Reasons
                                  -Freeze
                      -Housing starts
                      -Inventories
                      -Consumer purchasing power
                      -Savings
                      -Real spendable earnings
                -Momentum
                -History
                      -Action of expansion
                            -1933-1937
                            -Growth
                                  -Rate
-Great Depression
     -Date
           -Type of recession
     -Growth
-1970 Recession
     -Reasons
           -Previous factors
           -Unemployment figures
-Unemployment
     -Men in workforce
           -Number
           -Vietnam
                -Problems
                      -Geographical distribution
                            -California
                            -Chicago
                            -Gary, Indiana
                            -Connecticut
                            -Wichita
                                    33

                NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                            Tape Subject Log
                              (rev. 10/06)
                                                         Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


-Current economic atmosphere
     -Washington, DC
     -Unemployment
           -Future situation
           -Post-election period
           -Figures
                 -Maintenance
-Technical problems of Phase II
     -President's previous action
           -Politics
           -Approval
     -Speculations
           -Controlling prices
     -Public support
           -Already-existing economic factors
     -Consumer Price Index [CPI]
     -Sanction policy
           -Industries
                 -Control of wages and prices
                 -Effect
     -Wage and price increase
           -Approval
           -Disapproval
                 -Deadline
                       -Effect
                       -Number of days
                       -Pressure
                             -Cosmetic influence
           -Shultz, Herbert Stein
                 -Restraints
                       -Supervision
                             -Major industries
                                  -Effect on inflation
           -Bureaucracy
           -Decisions
           -Deferred increases
                 -Impact
     -Deferred rate increases
           -Labor-management panel
                 -Speculation
                 -Effect
                                    34

                NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                            Tape Subject Log
                              (rev. 10/06)
                                                            Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


                       -Automobiles
     -Union and management policies
          -US society
                -Contract between two parties
                       -Valid
          -Arguments against administration's policies
                -Contract
                -James W. Roach
          -Labor relations
                -History
                       -Wildcat strikes of 1930's
                       -Union leaders
                             -Contracts
          -Importance of contracts
                -Validity
                -Wage and price increases
                       -Government position
                       -Union leaders
                             -Possible effect on contract
                                  -New contract
                -Railroad union
                       -Contract
                             -Result
-Burns
-Equity
-Meeting between Burns and Shultz
     -Guidelines
          -West coast strike
                -Length
                -Percentage of proposed wage increase
                       -Cause for strike
     -Contract
          -Percent
                -Burns's position
                       -Strike
     -Longshoreman, coal miners
          -Steel settlement
     -Wages and prices
          -Friedman's analysis
                -Burns
                       -Wage and Price Review Board
                                               35

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 10/06)
                                                                        Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)


                                        -Legal precedent
                                             -History
                                                   -1932
                                                   -Eugene Meyer
                                                        -FRB
                                                             -Reconstruction Finance
                                                                  Corporation [RFC]
          -Deferred contracts
                -Impact on wages and prices
          -Economic system
                -Complexities of system
          -Guidelines
                -Numbers
                      -Averages
                      -Effect on unions
          -Principles of economics
          -Congress
          -Freeze
                -Effect on price index
                      -Percentage deviation
          -Walter E. Heller
                -Prediction of numbers
          -Alan Greenspan's prediction

     General conversation

     US economic policies
          -Congress
          -Labor leaders
          -Businessmen
               -Business Council
                     -Labor
          -Speculators
               -President’s announcement
                     -Japan

Shultz and Friedman left at 11:44 am.
                                             36

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/06)
                                                                     Conv. No. 578-5 (cont.)