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Conversation: 541-002

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Start Date: Wednesday, July 21, 1971 6:52 PM

End Date: Wednesday, July 21, 1971 9:04 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Usery, Willie J., Jr.Bull, Stephen B.Bull, Stephen B.Connally, John B.Shultz, George P.Ehrlichman, John D.Colson, Charles W.Mahon, George H.White House operator[Unknown person(s)]

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 00:01:37

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 02:12:08

541a.mp3

541b.mp3

NARA Description:

On July 21, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Willie J. Usery, Jr., Stephen B. Bull, Stephen B. Bull, John B. Connally, George P. Shultz, John D. Ehrlichman, Charles W. Colson, George H. Mahon, White House operator, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:52 pm and 5:04 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 541-002 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 541-2

Date: July 21, 1971
Time: Unknown after 2:52 pm until 5:04 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman at an unknown time after 2:52 pm.

     J. Curtis Counts
           -Secretary
           -Background
                -All-American baseball player at University of California at Los Angeles
                      [UCLA]

[The President talked with Willie J. Usery between 2:54 pm and 2:56 pm]

[Conversation No. 541-2A]

[See Conversation No. 6-175]

[End of telephone conversation]
                                               2

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 10/08)



     Usery
          -Character of people
               -Effects of wealth and education
                     -Beliefs
                     -Causes of war

     The President's schedule
          -Forthcoming trip to California                            Conv. No. 541-2 (cont.)
               -Use of time
          -Use of time


**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 38s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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                -Attendance at Washington Senators baseball game
                     -Compared to attendance at All-Stars game
                     -Newspaper coverage

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 2:55 pm.

     Meeting with John B. Connally

Bull left at an unknown time before 3:01 pm.

     Alternatives of economic action

     The President’s schedule

Connally, George P. Shultz, John D. Ehrlichman and Charles W. Colson entered at 3:01 pm.

     [General Conversation]
                                         3

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/08)



The economy
     -Possible action
          -Issuance of Treasury bonds
                -Interest rate
                      -Income
                            -Public perceptions
                                  -Savings bonds
     -Bonds                                                       Conv. No. 541-2 (cont.)
          -New York
          -Purchase of bonds in support of causes
                -Israel
                -Environment
                -Science exploration, cancer research
                -Effect on money markets
                -Appeal for investment in the United States
                -Number of people involved in savings bond drive
                -Effect on budget
          -Methods of setting up new program
                -Funding for future programs
                      -Peter G. Peterson
                      -Applied research efforts
                      -Inspiration of the public
                            -Contrast to taxation
                            -Spirit
          -Interest subsidies
                -Direct subsidies
                      -Maritime industry
                            -Differences in approach between the US and foreign countries
          -Bond sales as fundraising alternative
                -Comparison to school and other local bonds
          -Domestic programs
                -Expenditure
                -Public opinion
                -Environment
          -Market tests
                -Comparison to automobile tests
          -Conservative approach
     -John Kenneth Galbraith
          -Connally’s “enemy”principle
          -Issue of economic control
                -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy, Hubert H. Humphrey, Edmund S. Muskie
                      -Attitude toward wage and price control
                                           4

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 10/08)



          -Connally’s testimony
                -Response to Galbraith
          -Spokesperson for the left wing of the Democratic party
          -Permanent wage and price controls
          -Arthur F. Burns
          -British approach contrasted with the US
     -Wage-price controls
          -Response to Galbraith, Democrats                       Conv. No. 541-2 (cont.)
                -Attempts to force repudiation by Democratic candidates
          -Effects of 1953 agricultural action
                -Secretary of Agriculture
                      -Brandon Marme plan
          -Controlled economy
                -Totalitarian economies
          -Office of Price Administration [OPA]
     -Productivity Commission meeting
          -George Meany’s cooperation
          -Tenure
          -Relationship to administration
                -Executive Council, trade council, Teamsters
     -Popularity of unions
          -Union leaders opposition to administration
          -Administration’s courting of rank-and-file
     -Productivity Commission meeting
          -September, 1971
          -Planned issues
          -Meany’s role
     -Shultz’s proposed meeting with Meany
          -Job conference
                -Partisan attack
                -Support for Muskie, Humphrey, Carl B. Albert
                -Opposition to the President
     -Meany’s speech
          -Support for administration’s foreign policy
          -Opposition to administration’s economic policy
     -Productivity Commission
          -Perceptions
          -Press

Labor issues
     -Union members
           -Appeal to the rank and file rather than the leaders
                                    5

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                           Tape Subject Log
                             (rev. 10/08)



           -US position in the world
     -Rank and file
           -Practical concerns
                 -Jobs
           -Educational level
           -Contributions
           -Compared to the US leader class
                 -Patriotism                                  Conv. No. 541-2 (cont.)
                 -H. G. Wells' view of history
                 -Effects of higher education
                 -Attitude toward issues
                       -Drugs, crime, national defense, US supremacy
                       -Compared to Britain, France, Germany
                             -Japan
                       -Comparison to the President's generation
                       -Attitude towards the People’s Republic of China [PRC]
                             initiative
                             -Reasons
     -Labor leaders
           -Meany, Frank E. Fitzsimmons, Peter J. Brennan
                 -Background
                       -Comparison with farmers
                 -Need for support in maintaining US supremacy
                             -Communist countries
           -Compared to university president
                 -Kent State
           -Compared to science advisors groups
           -Compared to businessmen
                 -New managerial class
           -Compared to religious leaders
                 -William F. (“Billy”) Graham
           -Compared to journalists
     -Rank and file attitude towards the US, the President
     -Labor leaders
           -Meany
           -Fitzsimmons
           -Brennan
-Need to fight labor perceptions on economic issues
-Union members
     -US moral crisis
           -The President’s view
           -Sources of support for the President
                                     6

                NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                            Tape Subject Log
                              (rev. 10/08)



                   -International issues
                         -The Vietnam war
                               -Demonstrators in Washington
                   -Working class people
                         -Cambodia
                               -John V. Lindsay
                               -Hard hat demonstrations in support of the President in
                                     New York City              Conv. No. 541-2 (cont.)
      -Handling of economic opposition
      -Strike settlements
             -The President's calls to Usery, Counts
-Counts’ meeting with longshoremen
-Usery
      -Jobs conference
      -Rank and file support for the administration
             -Concern for jobs
      -Administration’s position on unions
-International issue
      -Trade
      -European community
      -Meany
             -Protectionist rhetoric
             -US jobs
                   -Exports
                   -The automobile industry
                   -Peterson
-Connally's speaking engagement, July 20, 1971
      -Sift in job market
             -Importance of private sector
             -Role of unions
             -Sources of capital
             -Labor force
                   -Increased number of women
                   -Conflict between educated and uneducated workers
                   -Competition with other countries
                         -Japan
-Administration’s position
      -James D. Hodgson
      -Education
      -Colt Industries
      -Meany
             -Possible stance
                                            7

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 10/08)



                         -Muskie
                         -Peterson
              -Appeal to the rank and file
              -The President's image
                   -Compared to Muskie, Kennedy, Humphrey
                   -Comparison to Franklin D. Roosevelt's unique image
                         -Upper class background
                               -Appeal to the common man           Conv. No. 541-2 (cont.)


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 2m 16s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

**********************************************************************


         -Perceptions of blue collar taxpayers
              -Welfare issue
              -William L. Safire, Raymond K. Price, Jr.
              -The President's image
                    -Differences from new leader class
         -Meany's comments
         -Connally's press conference
              -Response
                    -Lockheed
              -Projections on 1972 labor vote


**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 2m 43s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
                                               8

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/08)




**********************************************************************


    Special interest groups
         -The administration's relations with labor
         -Blacks
                -Meetings with the President in the White House           Conv. No. 541-2 (cont.)
                -Opposition to Barry M. Goldwater
         -Jews
         -The President's schedule
         -Labor
         -Blacks, Jews
                -Contrast in effectiveness of meetings
         -Political action committees [PAC]
                -California's 1950 senatorial election
                      -Taft-Hartley
                      -Helen Gahagan Douglas compared with Richard M. Nixon
                      -Effect on labor vote
         -Connally’s “enemy” principle
         -Labor
                -Rank and file reactions compared to labor leaders
                      -Support for the President in foreign policy and national security issues
                      -The economy
                -Connally’s “enemy” principle
                      -Comparison of Roosevelt and John L. Lewis; John F. Kennedy, Jr. and
                            James R. Hoffa
                      -Administration’s strategy
                            -Galbraith
                                  -Relations with labor
                                  -Wage and price controls
                                       -Meany

    Wage and price controls
        -Administration’s strategy
             -Government role
                    -The President’s view
             -OPA
             -Examples of socialized economies in other countries

    Labor
         -[Unintelligible name] as target
                                         9

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/08)



     -Labor relations in the past
           -Lewis, Harry Bridges
           -The President's meetings with Brennan and others
                 -Teamsters Union official from California
           -Anecdote from the 1950's
           -California
                 -Example of [unintelligible name]
                 -Undersecretary of Labor                          Conv. No. 541-2 (cont.)
                       -James P. Mitchell
                       -[First name not known] Peterson of construction and builders union
                 -Painters Union
                 -Longshoremen
                 -Electrical union
                       -(Albert J.)? Fitzgerald
     -Internal Revenue Service investigation
     -Union practices in the past
           -Mineworkers
           -California
                 -Democratic registration efforts
                       -Blacks, Hispanics
                             -Focus on minorities
                       -Comparison to Connally's experiences
     -Possible successors to Meany
           -[Joseph] Lane Kirkland, Joe Baron
                 -I.[lworth] W. Abel
     -Settlement of labor disputes
           -The President's conversation with Usery
                 -Effectiveness of the President's meetings
                 -Productivity and wage issues
           -Settlement of the postal strike
                 -Winton M. (“Red”) Blount
           -Signal to other unions

Privatization
     -Manpower program
            -Daycare centers
            -Private industry compared to Federal government

The aged
     -Concerns
     -White House conference
     -Social security
                                              10

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/08)



           -Arthur F. Burns
                -Presentation

     Labor
          -Communication
          -The President's meeting with Teamsters officials, Brennan
          -Support for president’s foreign policy
          -The Teamsters                                               Conv. No. 541-2 (cont.)

     The PRC initiative
          -Connally's conversation with Hamilton Fish, Sr.
               -Connally’s conversation with Hamilton Fish, Jr.
               -Praise for the President's action
               -Anecdote about Roosevelt
               -Anecdote about Alexander Hamilton
                     -Forthcoming book
                     -George Washington's farewell address

Ehrlichman, Shultz, and Colson left at 4:35 pm.

     Labor
          -Economic issues
               -Approach to handling labor leaders, rank and file
                    -Number of new jobs
                    -The President's foreign policy accomplishments
                    -Quotas
                    -Lockheed
                    -Tax reform
                         -Alleviation of burden on the working man

     The President's conversation with Ehrlichman, July 20, 1971

     Spiro T. Agnew
          -Bryce N. Harlow's analysis
          -Possibility of resignation from office
                -January 1972
                -Nomination of successor by the President with confirmation by the Senate

[The President talked with George H. Mahon between 4:40 pm and 4:46 pm]

[Conversation No. 541-2B]
                                            11

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 10/08)



[See Conversation No. 6-177]

[End of telephone conversation]

[The President talked with the White House Operator at an unknown time between 4:46 pm and
5:04 pm.

[Conversation No. 541-2C]                                           Conv. No. 541-2 (cont.)

[See Conversation No. 6-178]

[End of telephone conversation]

[The President talked with an unknown person [Ehrlichman?] at an unknown time between 4:46
pm and 5:04 pm.

[Conversation No. 541-2D]

     Request for conversation with Paul Wilson
         -Mahon’s staff
         -Testimony of appropriations bill
         -Hodgson

[End of telephone conversation]

     Appropriations
         -Public service funding


**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 4m 8s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6

**********************************************************************


     US foreign policy
                                         12

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 10/08)



     -Changes in climate
     -The PRC initiative
          -Support by people like Galbraith
     -The Vietnam war
          -Decline in prominence of issue
     -Possible US-Soviet Union [USSR] summit in May 1972
     -Liberal perceptions
          -Dwight D. Eisenhower's 1956 heart attack               Conv. No. 541-2 (cont.)
                -Adlai E. Stevenson
                -Nixon’s vice presidency compared to Agnew
     -The PRC initiative
          -Henry A. Kissinger
          -Unexpected nature of July 15, 1971 announcement by the President
                -Speculation as to focus prior to speech delivery

Vice Presidency
     -Connally
           -Goals
           -Role and duties of Vice President
                -Connally’s view
                -The President’s view
                -Unprecedented nature of the President's relations with Connally
     -Comparisons with previous administrations
           -Eisenhower-Nixon
           -John F. Kennedy-Lyndon B. Johnson
           -Johnson-Humphrey
     -The Vice President as the President's alter ego
     -Connally
           -Election and political aspects
           -Handling of duties while in office
                -Comparison with Eisenhower's second term
                -Agnew
                -Relations with the Cabinet
     -Successor
     -Cabinet members
     -Congress
           -Gerald R. Ford
     -Nelson A. Rockefeller
     -Ronald W. Reagan
     -Requirements
     -Agnew
                                              13

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/08)



Haldeman and Connally left at 5:04 pm.