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Conversation: 488-015

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Start Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1971 2:19 PM

End Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1971 3:43 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Kissinger, Henry A.Sanchez, ManoloHaldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Ziegler, Ronald L.Ehrlichman, John D.Bull, Stephen B.[Unknown person(s)]Ford, Henry, IIIacocca, Lide A.

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 01:01:10

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 02:23:32

NARA Description:

On April 27, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, Manolo Sanchez, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Ronald L. Ziegler, John D. Ehrlichman, Stephen B. Bull, unknown person(s), Henry Ford, II, and Lide A. Iacocca met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:19 am to 11:43 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 488-015 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 488-15
                                                               Conv. No. 488-12 (cont.)
Date: April 27, 1971
Time: 10:19 am - 11:43 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.

     Weather

     Vietnam
          -North Vietnamese military activities
               -Attacks on US bases
               -US casualties
                     -Figures
          -US casualties
               -Projections
               -Laos operation (Lam Son)
               -Drop

     President's People's Republic of China [PRC] initiative
          -General Vernon A. Walters
          -Jean Sainteny
          -Edgar P. Snow’s reports
                 -Mao Tse-tung
                 -President's possible visit
          -Press report
                 -H.R. Haldeman's reaction
                 -Support for President
                 -Stories
                 -Hugh S. Sidey
                 -John F. Osborne
                 -John (unintelligible surname)
                       -Snow’s report
          -Snow's activities and reports
                 -US messages
                                             14

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



                     -US proposals
                -Press reports
                -Possible US response
                     -Press conference

     Vietnam
          -Negotiations
              -Prisoners of War [POWs]
              -US stance
              -Networks
                     -Laos operation (Lam Son)
                     -Coverage
                     -Administration's position

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 10:19 am.

     Refreshment

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 10:50 am.

     Vietnam
          -Press
               -1970 campaign
                      -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
               -Stewart J.O. Alsop's forthcoming article
                      -Democrats
                            -1972 elections
                            -Policy towards Vietnam
          -Kissinger's activities
               -Woodstock
                      -Europeans
                      -Americans
                      -Donald W. Riegle, Jr.
                      -Support for the President
                            -David Rockefeller
                            -Arthur H. Dean
                            -Robert B. Anderson
          -Public relations
               -Possible administration counterattacks
               -Administration opponents
          -US bombing targets
               -Laos
                                               15

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 9/08)



           -Opponents
           -Alsop's view
                -Democrats position
                      -Effect on US foreign policy

[Transcript #1: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives andConv.
                                                                            Records
                                                                                No. 488-15 (cont.)
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]

[End of transcript]

     Public relations efforts
          -Cabinet
                 -John B. Connally
                 -Agnew

     Agnew
         -Activities
         -Remarks regarding PRC
         -Schedule
              -Jamaica
                     -Timing

[Transcript #2: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]

[End of transcript]

     President's schedule
          -Previous meeting with Melvin R. Laird
                 -Laird's health
          -David Packard
                      -Family
                             -Vietnam
                                  -Lucile Packard
                      -Stanford University
                      -Friends
                             -Establishment
                      -Government
                                              16

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 9/08)



                   -President’s view of Packard’s service

    Government service
        -Difficulty
        -Friends

***********************************************************************
                                                          Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Privacy]
[Duration: 20s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6

**********************************************************************


         -Previous Cabinet meeting
              -Elliot L. Richardson
                    -White House youth conference
                          -Stephen Hess

    Youth
         -Richardson's views
              -Need for communication
              -President’s position
         -Activists
         -Kissinger's schedule
              -Meetings with student groups
         -Emotions
         -Romanticism
         -Previous generation
              -Joseph P. Kennedy
         -Kissinger’s view
         -Eighteen-year-olds
         -Twenty-one-year-olds
         -US government
              -Founding fathers
              -Constitution
                    -Age requirement
                          -President
                                              17

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 9/08)



                           -Senators
                           -Congressmen
           -Age of majority
                 -Robert H. Finch
                 -William G. Milliken
                       -Proposal
                 -Eighteen-year-olds
                       -Vote                                           Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)
                       -Liquor
                       -Marijuana
                       -Congress
                       -President's youth
           -President's schedule
                 -Previous Cabinet meeting
                       -Leadership

     Youth conference
         -Richardson's report
               -Adults
               -Teachers, professors

     Youth
          -Colleges
          -High schools
          -Colleges
               -Faculty
          -Kissinger's youth

[Transcript #3: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]

[End of transcript]

     Youth
          -President's schedule
                -Previous Cabinet meeting
                -Meeting with Texas A&M choir
                -Previous meeting with Ohio State group
          -Polls
                -Opposition to administration
                                              18

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



                      -Teachers
           -Vote
           -Universities
                -Views regarding administration
           -Non-college educated
                -Figures
           -Alienation
           -Adolescence                                                Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)
                -Sense of identity
           -Alienation

[Transcript #4: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]

[End of transcript]

     Vietnam
          -President's press conferences
                -Possible questions
                      -Bombing
                            -US proposal
                                 -Cease-fire
                      -North Vietnamese Army
                            -Laos, Cambodia, and South Vietnam
                                 -Troop numbers
                -Civilian dead
                      -Figures
                            -North Vietnamese Army
                -Refugees
                      -Laos
                -Partition
                      -North Vietnamese refugees
                            -Figures
                      -North Vietnamese dead
                            -Figures

     Personnel officers
          -Companies
                -Veterans
                -Views of veterans
                                         19

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 9/08)



                   -My Lai
                   -President’s view
              -Businessmen
                   -Sons
                         -Draft

Draft
        -Avoidance                                            Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)
             -Ministers
             -Teachers
             -Coast Guard

Personnel officers
     -Views of veterans
           -My Lai
           -Vietnam
Vietnam
     -The Establishment
     -Administration position
     -Opposition
     -Hawks
     -Support for President
     -Jingoism

Establishment
     -Views regarding PRC and Taiwan
     -Taiwan
          -Expulsion from United Nations [UN]
     -PRC
          -Recognition
     -Taiwan
          -Incorporation into PRC

PRC
        -President's initiatives
        -Soviet Union

US and Soviet Union relations
     -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
     -Summit meeting
     -PRC
     -John F. Kennedy
                                                20

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



                -Press
                -George Washington

     Vietnam
          -Peace negotiations
               -North Vietnamese strategy
               -US strategy
               -President’s view                               Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)
               -Residual force
               -POWs
               -Residual force
                     -POWs
          -Vietnamization policy
          -North Vietnamese position
          -US withdrawal
          -US military capabilities
               -Air Force
          -Negotiations
               -Paris
          -Possible North Vietnamese military operations
          -US military options
          -US casualties
          -US withdrawal
          -US military options

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:19 am.

     President's schedule
          -Meeting with Henry Ford II
                 -John D. Ehrlichman and Ronald L. Ziegler
                 -Timing

Bull left at an unknown time before 10:50 am.

     Vietnam
          -Peace negotiations
               -Possible US proposal
          -Possible US military operations
               -Bombing
          -Possible North Vietnamese military operations
          -Possible US military operations
               -Effect on US public
                                                 21

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                         Tape Subject Log
                                            (rev. 9/08)



             -Media
                  -Press and television
             -Television
                  -Coverage of administration spokesmen
                        -William H. Sullivan

     Germany
         -World War I                                                  Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)

                  -Comparison to Vietnam War
                  -1918 Revolution
                  -Sentiment in 1921
                  -Revolution
                       -Results

     Vietnam
          -Senators

     Press
             -Coverage of administration activities
                  -Haldeman's reaction
                  -Rightists
             -Press conferences
                  -President's use of
                        -Frequency

[Transcript #5: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]

[End of transcript]

     Press coverage
           -Effect
                -Pride
                -Self-confidence
           -Vietnam
                -Lieutenant William L. Calley, Jr. case

     Vietnam
          -Public reaction
                                              22

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                           (rev. 9/08)



             -Casualties
             -US national goal
             -Cabinet views
                  -Connally and Agnew
                  -John N. Mitchell
             -Outlook

     National Outlook                                            Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)
          -1976 and 1980
                -Public reaction
          -Kissinger's possible candidacy
          -President's standing
                -Effect in 1972
          -President's opponents

     Vietnam
          -Polls
                -Approval and disapproval rate
          -Administration initiatives
                -Troop withdrawals
                -Casualties
          -Administration's position
          -Press
                -Magazines
                -Laos and Cambodia
                     -Administration’s response
                            -North Vietnamese presence
                -Reports on administration
                -US military activities
                     -Laos
                -Need for public relation efforts

     Kissinger's schedule
          -Trip

     Press

Haldeman entered at 10:50 am.

     Administration policies
         -Vietnam
         -Press
                                        23

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                     (rev. 9/08)



     -Economy
     -Support for the President
     -Confidence

Packard
     -Kissinger’s conversation with Packard
           -The President’s view
     -Role                                                 Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)
     -Lucile Packard
     -Stanford
     -Possible Defense Department reorganization
           -Panama
           -Southern Command
           -Packard, Adm. Thomas H. Moorer and Kissinger
           -Views
           -President's schedule
                 -Possible meeting, May 3, 1971
                 -Timing
           -Meeting, May 4, 1971
                 -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
           -Southern Command
                 -Packard’s view

Southern Command
     -Packard's views
     -President's position
     -Importance
           -Military views
     -US Ambassadors
           -Latin America
     -Joint Chiefs of Staff
     -Packard
     -President's schedule, May 4, 1971
           -Meeting with Packard
     -Kissinger's possible conversation with Packard
     -Panama Canal
           -Negotiations

Kissinger's schedule
     -Trip to California
     -Timing
                                                  24

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 9/08)



     Vietnam
          -President's policies
          -Establishment
          -Republic of South Vietnam
                -Support for US
                -Military
                -Para-military
                -Government                                        Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)
                -Officials
                -Communist takeover

Ziegler entered at 10:53 am and Kissinger left.

     Ziegler's upcoming press conference
          -Scheduling
          -President's schedule
                 -Trip to California
                       -Return date
                 -First Marine Division
                       -Ceremonies
                       -Return date
                 -Length of stay
                 -Return date
                 -Timing
                 -Wording of statement
                 -Return date
                 -Schedule, May 4, 1971
                       -Republican leadership meeting

Ehrlichman entered at 10:55 am and Ziegler left.

     Air bags
          -President’s position
          -President's upcoming meeting with Ford and Lide A. Iacocca
          -John A. Volpe's activities
          -Department of Transportation regulations
                -Federal Register
          -Administration's position
          -The President’s upcoming meeting with Ford and Iacocca
                -The President’s comments
                -Consumerism
                -Ford
                                       25

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 9/08)




Economy
    -Manchester Guardian article
          -George P. Shultz and Connally
          -Arthur F. Burns
    -Interest rates
          -President’s comments to Burns
                -Connally’s role                              Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)
          -Shultz
    -Administration's position
    -Possible White House statement
    -Burns' statement
          -Interest rates
    -Chase Manhattan Bank
          -Connally’s view
    -Council of Economic Advisors [CEA]
          -Unknown man's statement
                -Connally’s jurisdiction
                -Paul W. McCracken
                -Herbert Stein
                -Hendrik S. Houthakker
          -Connally’s statement
                -Chase Manhattan Bank
                      -Unknown CEA official comments
                            -Effect on Connally
          -President’s view
          -Burns
          -CEA
          -Connally's role
          -Chase National Bank
    -President’s previous meeting with Burns
          -Discussion topics
          -Ehrlichman’s recollection
          -Burns
          -Ehrlichman's possible conversation with Connally
          -Unknown CEA official
          -Ziegler's press statement
                -Briefing comments
                      -Connally’s role
                      -Federal Reserve Board
                      -CEA
                      -Shultz
                                                26

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



                            -Connally’s role
                -CEA
                    -Need for coordination
                         -McCracken
                         -Connally

     President's schedule
          -Upcoming meeting with Ford and Iacocca                Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)
                 -Airbags
                      -The President’s view
                 -Bumpers
                 -The President’s comments

     Volpe
          -Tenure
          -Haldeman's conversation with Mitchell
               -Role
               -Italians
               -Department of Transportation

Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:55 am.

     President's schedule
          -Meeting with Ford and Iacocca

Bull left at an unknown time before 11:08 am.

     Cabinet
          -Volpe
               -Role
                     -Public relations
               -Meeting with the President
          -George W. Romney
               -Speech
                     -Revenue sharing
                     -Labor
                     -Support for the President
          -Volpe
               -Role
                     -Ehrlichman’s view

     President's schedule
                                               27

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 9/08)



           -Visit to California
           -Legislative meeting, May 4, 1971
           -Event at shipyard

**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 12
[Personal Returnable]                                                   Conv. No. 488-15 (cont.)
[Duration: 20s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 12

**********************************************************************


[Transcript #6: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]

[End of transcript]

Ford, Iacocca and an unknown man [Ziegler] entered at 11:08 am. Haldeman left.

     Greetings

The unknown man left at 11:08 am.

     [General conversation]
          -Golf
          -Europe
                -Unknown man's trip
          -President's schedule

[A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under court order from
April 1983 for Special Access 65, Whitmore v. General Motors Corporation, No. C82-500 A.
The National Archives and Records Administration produced this transcript. The National
Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]

[End of transcript]
                                                 28

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                         Tape Subject Log
                                            (rev. 9/08)



An unknown person entered and left at an unknown time during the transcribed portion.

Ford, Iacocca and Ehrlichman left at 11:43 am.