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Conversation: 487-005

Prev: 487-004 Next: 487-006

Start Date: Friday, April 23, 1971 3:40 PM

End Date: Friday, April 23, 1971 4:56 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")[Unknown person(s)]Safire, William L.Bull, Stephen B.Woods, Rose Mary

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 01:17:41

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 02:17:34

487-005.mp3

NARA Description:

On April 23, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, unknown person(s), William L. Safire, Stephen B. Bull, and Rose Mary Woods met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:40 am to 11:56 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 487-005 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 487-5

Date: April 23, 1971
Time: 10:40 am - 11:56 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     The President's previous conversation with John A. (“Jack”) Mulcahy


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal-returnable]
[Duration: 22s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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     Mulcahy
         -President's schedule
               -Possible trip abroad
               -Visit
               -Ireland
                     -Helicopter
                                            22

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 9/08)



    Arthur S. Fleming
         -Assignment
         -White House Conference on Aging
         -Stature

    Aircraft
         -Gen. James D. (“Don”) Hughes' memo to the President
         -Use by family                                         Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
               -Cost
               -Secret Service
         -Cost to the President
         -Hughes' memo to the President
               -Purpose
         -Use by family
         -Jack N. Anderson
               -Story
         -Secret Service
         -Military aircraft
               -Lyndon B. Johnson
         -President's position
         -Money


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 9s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

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         -Cost
         -Money
         -Expenses
               -Political contributions
               -Cash
         -California campaign
               -Reimbursements to the President
                                            23

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 9/08)



          -Personal expenses
          -Money
          -Hughes' memo


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4                                     Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 28s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

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          -Problem
          -Reimbursements to the President
                -Political considerations
          -Possible criticism of the President
          -President Johnson
          -Haldeman's trips to Williamsburg
                -Carlisle H. Humelsine
                -Payment for lodging
                -Personal expenses
                -White House staff
                      -Robert D. (“Bobby”) Baker

An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 10:40 am.

     The President's schedule
          -William L. Safire

The unknown man left at an unknown time before 10:56 am.

     Personal expenses
          -William P. Rogers and Warren E. Burger
                                           24

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 9/08)



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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 31s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5                                            Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)

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         -Business expenses
         -Integrity
         -Graham B. Steenhoven
               -Trip to People's Republic of China (PRC)
         -President's meeting with Rio Grande High School student group
               -Merchants
                     -Money

    The President's expenditures
         -White House expenses
         -Secret Service
               -Spending decreases
         -Symbolism
         -President Johnson’s expenses
         -Travel
               -"Cronies"
               -Company for wives
                     -Hairdresser


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 1m 25s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7

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                                              25

                              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 9/08)




Safire entered at 10:56 am.

     Forthcoming Chamber of Commerce speech
          -Welfare
               -President's speech at Williamsburg Republican Governors' Conference
                     -Administration position
                     -Public assistance                               Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
                     -Guaranteed annual wage
                     -Wilbur D. Mills' conversation with John W. Byrnes
                           -Possible House action

     The President's speech at Republican Governors Conference in Williamsburg
          -Welfare
               -Prepared text
               -“Ad lib” remarks
                      -President's mother
                            -Activities
                            -Work

     Welfare
          -President's position
          -Self-help
          -Capacity for self reliance
          -Children
                -First step
          -Independent businessman
                -Possibility of failure
                -Loan from rich uncle
          -National revulsion
          -Governors
                -Nelson A. Rockefeller's position
                -Ronald W. Reagan's position
          -President's speech at Republican Governors' Conference
                -Reaction
                      -Television

     The President's upcoming Chamber of Commerce speech
          -Words regarding welfare
          -Spirit of people
          -President's conversation with Haldeman, April 22, 1971
                -Free medicine
                                             26

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



               -Free housing
               -Guaranteed income
         -Society
         -Theme
         -President's position regarding needy
         -President's schedule
               -Open door hour meeting
                     -Blind and deaf child                         Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
         -Self-help
         -Demagoguery

    The President's speech at Republican Governors Conference,
         Williamsburg
         -Welfare women
              -Menial jobs


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 19s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8

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    Welfare
         -Administration position
         -New York City
         -President's position
         -Welfare state
         -Popular reaction
         -Working people
               -Views regarding non-workers
                     -Food stamps
         -President's meeting with construction industry leaders
         -Upcoming speech
               -Blacks
         -Blacks and non-blacks
                                        27

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 9/08)



           -Puerto Ricans
           -Mexicans
     -Whites
     -President's speech in 1969
           -Family assistance program
     -Guaranteed annual income
           -President's position
           -Material needs                                     Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
           -Special individual quality
     -President's conversation with Haldeman, April 22, 1971
           -Self-help

The President's upcoming Chamber of Commerce speech
     -Administration's goal regarding work
          -Opportunity
     -Government's role
     -Economic policy
     -American business community
     -Wording
     -Guaranteed annual income

Unknown Texas woman
    -Television appearance
         -Capitol steps
         -Demonstrators
         -Remarks on work

The President's upcoming Chamber of Commerce speech
     -Freedom phone
     -Welfare workers
     -Menial tasks
          -Self respect
          -Definition
          -Help from others
     -Needy
          -Categories
          -Deaf
          -Blind
          -Unemployable
          -Mentally retarded
          -Older persons
                 -Rest homes
                                          28

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 9/08)



     -Welfare recipients
     -Young people
     -Home for the Incurables
           -President's visit
           -Charity
     -Needy
           -President’s view
           -Improvement in care                           Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
           -Quality of care
                 -Effect of non-workers
     -Self-help
           -Non-strivers
     -Thrust
     -Theme
     -Welfare rolls
           -Figures
           -“Loafers and bums”
           -California numbers
           -Non-workers
                 -Way of life
     -Possible effect

Family assistance
     -President's position
           -Support for the President
     -“Loafers and bums”

Welfare
     -President's position
     -Character
     -Mothers with children
           -Work
           -Child care

The President's upcoming Chamber of Commerce speech
     -Welfare
     -Text
     -1968 campaign
     -Welfare rolls
           -Numbers
     -Text
           -Length
                                               29

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



                   -Cuts
           -Cuts
                 -Science and technology
           -Length
           -Cuts
           -Length
           -Copy
           -Text                                                   Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
                 -Possible additions
           -Bridge
                 -Character of country
           -Government
                 -Effect on people
                 -Character
                 -Text
                       -Changes
           -Notes
                 -[Forename unknown] Flaherty
                 -President's meeting with Congressional leaders
                       -Arthur F. Burns
                 -Memo
           -Writing
                 -Time
                 -Safire's schedule
                 -President's schedule, April 24, 1971
                       -Camp David
                 -Time
                 -Safire's schedule, April 24, 1971
                       -Courier plane

     The President's afternoon schedule
          -Visit to David and Julie Eisenhower
          -Safire's schedule
                -Chamber of Commerce speech

Safire left at 11:15 am

           -Plane trip

     Public relations activities
          -Safire's assignments
                 -Speechwriting for the President
                                          30

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                     (rev. 9/08)



Welfare rolls
     -Safire's view
     -Recipients
     -Administration's position
     -Numbers
     -Welfare workers
           -Children
                                                                  Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
People's Republic of China [PRC]
     -Memorandum
           -Rogers
           -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
           -Henry A. Kissinger
           -Haig
     -Press Release
           -Rogers
           -Draft
     -Draft release
           -State Department
     -State Department
           -Marshall Green
           -Rogers' schedule
     -Press release
           -Kissinger
           -State Department
           -National Security Council [NSC]
                 -Undersecretaries committee
                       -Ronald L. Ziegler and John N. Irwin, II
     -Haldeman's possible conversation with Rogers
     -NSC
           -Undersecretaries committee
                 -Irwin
     -Press release
           -Irwin
     -State Department
           -Rogers
           -Press release
                 -Haig
           -Rogers' schedule
                 -Costa Rica
                                         31

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 9/08)



      -Press release
           -Marvin L. Kalb
           -Rogers' schedule

Office of Emergency Preparedness
     -Candidates for directorship
           -Gen. Leonard F. Chapman, Jr.
           -George W. Anderson                            Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
           -Chapman

Central Intelligence Agency [CIA]
     -Lt. Gen. Robert E. Cushman, Jr.
     -Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters

Marine Corps
     -Chapman
     -Commandant
     -Cushman
     -Chapman
     -Cushman

Reassignments
     -John J. McCloy

CIA
      -Walters
           -President’s decision
           -Kissinger
           -Mitchell's view
           -Assignment
           -Role

Chapman
    -Politics
    -Loyalty
    -Hughes

Marine Corps
     -Mission
     -Chapman
          -Qualifications
          -Kissinger's view
                                              32

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



    John N. Connally, Jr.

    Personnel
         -Need for public relations efforts

    Department of Transportation
        -Secretary
             -Donald H. Rumsfeld                                 Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
        -Rumsfeld
             -Qualifications

    Personnel
         -Clifford M. Hardin
         -Rumsfeld
         -Richard G. Kleindienst
               -Effectiveness
         -Mitchell

    Mitchell
         -Effectiveness
         -Qualifications

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 35s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10

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         -Justice Department

    Department of Justice
        -John D. Ehrlichman
        -Kleindienst
                                      33

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 9/08)



Kleindienst
     -Possible assignment
     -Future fole

Ehrlichman
      -Attorney General
      -Role
      -Domestic policy                                     Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
      -Value
      -Justice Department
      -Role
      -Justice Department
      -Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
            -Robert H. Finch
            -Domestic policy
                  -Importance
      -Possible assignment
      -Justice Department
      -Attorney General
      -Aspirations
            -Supreme Court
            -CIA
            -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
      -FBI
            -Directorship
            -J. Edgar Hoover
      -Assignment
      -Role
            -Election
      -Possible assignment
            -FBI
            -CIA
      -CIA
            -Ehrlichman and Walters
            -CIA
            -FBI
            -FBI
                  -Directorship
            -CIA
                  -Directorship
      -Dispositions
      -Intelligence activities
                                                34

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



          -Aspirations
               -CIA
               -FBI
          -CIA
          -Career aspirations
          -Supreme Court
          -CIA
          -NSC                                                       Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
               -Foreign policy
               -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 11:15 am.

     The President's schedule
          -Meeting with Rose Mary Woods

Bull left at an unknown time before 11:27 am.

     National secretary week
          -Woods

     Woods' activities
         -National secretary week
               -Television
               -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS] "Morning Show"
               -"Today Show"
               -Mike Douglas
               -Haldeman's note to Woods
                      -"Today Show"
                      -Woods' note to Haldeman

The President talked with Bull at an unknown time between 11:15 am and 11:27 am.

[Conversation No. 487-5A ]

     President’s schedule

[End of telephone conversation]

     Woods' activities
         -Television show interview
               -Timing
                                             35

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



Woods entered at 11:27 am.

               -Tom Jerrell
                    -American Broadcasting Company [ABC]
                    -Jerrell's views
               -"Morning Show"
               -Speeches
               -Television                                     Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)
                    -Los Angeles
                    -[Unintelligible]
               -Format
                    -Interview
                    -Speeches
               -ABC program
                    -"Today Show"

Haldeman left at an unknown time before 11:47 am.


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 53s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11

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     Unknown man
         -Television documentary music
              -"Victory at Sea"
                    -Gift to the President
                    -RCA Victor
         -Woods' possible response

     Woods' schedule
         -Kentucky Derby
         -California
                                            36

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 9/08)



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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 13
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 7s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 13                                    Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)

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         -Lucy A. Winchester's schedule
         -Woods
              -Transportation
         -Mitchell
              -Schedule
              -Transportation
         -Woods' schedule
              -[Forename unknown]Yeager
              -Louie B. Nunn
              -Mitchell
              -Transportation
              -Hughes
         -Cornelius V. (“Sonny”) Whitney
              -Dinner dance
                    -Woods
                    -Mitchell and Martha (Beall) Mitchell
         -Governor's Derby breakfast
         -Massachusetts
         -Woods' schedule
         -Whitney dinner dance
         -Woods' possible call to Hughes
         -Mitchell
              -Transportation
              -Speech
         -Winchester's schedule
                                           37

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 14
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 3m 51s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 14                                           Conv. No. 487-5 (cont.)

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    Woods' schedule
        -Visit to [unintelligible name]

    Massachusetts
        -Woods' activities
        -President's supporters
        -President's meeting with Navy League leaders, April 21, 1971
              -Unknown man's remarks


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 15
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 41s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 15

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         -Universities
              -Harvard
              -Massachusetts Institute of Technology [MIT]
              -Brandeis
              -Smith
              -Holyoke
                                                38

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 9/08)



                  -Boston University
                  -Boston College
             -School system
                  -Left wingers

[A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under court order from
December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums, et al. v. James M.
Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records Administration
                                                                          Conv. No.
                                                                                 produced
                                                                                     487-5 (cont
                                                                                            this .)
transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]

[End of transcript]

     Press
             -President’s view
             -Left
             -Status
             -Woods' conversation with unknown man
                   -George [Surname not known]
                   -Harold Rice [?]
                   -Reporting
                   -Story
                   -Secretary's job
                        -Difficulties

Woods left at 11:47 am.