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Conversation: 476-014

Prev: 476-013 Next: 476-015

Start Date: Friday, April 9, 1971 4:40 PM

End Date: Friday, April 9, 1971 6:30 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Garment, LeonardFinch, Robert H.Hanks, Nancy[Unknown person(s)]Bull, Stephen B.Rumsfeld, Donald H.Rumsfeld, Joyce (Pierson)Rumsfeld, Jeannette (Husted)Rumsfeld, George D.

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 02:52:25

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 04:42:36

476-014.mp3

NARA Description:

On April 9, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Leonard Garment, Robert H. Finch, Nancy Hanks, unknown person(s), Stephen B. Bull, Donald H. Rumsfeld, Joyce (Pierson) Rumsfeld, Jeannette (Husted) Rumsfeld, and George D. Rumsfeld met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:40 am to 1:30 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 476-014 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 476-14

Date: April 9, 1971
Time: 11:40 am - 1:30 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman, Leonard Garment, Robert H. Finch, and Nancy
Hanks

     Greetings

     Hanks’ visit to Philadelphia arts center, April 8, 1971
         -Walter H. and Leonore (Cohn) Annenberg

     President’s meeting with movie industry group
          -San Clemente, California, April 5, 1971
          -Aid for industry
                                      34

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 9/08)



     -Haldeman
     -Praise for Hanks
     -Garment
     -Taft Schreiber
           -Columbia Pictures
     -Unknown people

Joseph H. Hirshhorn Museum
     -Names
     -Location
          -Mall
     -Sculptures
     -Architecture
          -Modern
     -Whitney Museum
          -New York
     -Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum
     -Architecture
          -Aesthetics
          -Washington, DC
          -Possible controversy
     -Plans approval
     -Possible changes
     -Sculpture garden
     -Collection
     -Appointments to Board of Trustees
          -”Therapy”
          -Changes
                -Easterners
          -Schreiber
          -Hal B. Wallis
          -L. Annenberg
          -Jack Hines
          -Nathan Cummings
                -Waldorf Hotel
                -Democrat
                -Art collection
          -Ted Cummings
                -California
                -Art collection
                -Appointments
          -Schreiber, N. and T. Cummings
                                       35

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 9/08)



          -Mrs. T. Cummings
          -Instructions to call N. Cummings
                -President’s conversation with N. Cummings at Waldorf
          -Paul W. McCracken’s meeting in New York
                -N. Cummings
          -Leigh Block
                -Chicago
          -H[jorvardur] Harvard Arnason                        Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
          -Background of group
          -Arnason
          -Schreiber
          -[Lyndon B.?] Johnson
     -Hobart Taylor, Jr.
          -Bryce N. Harlow
     -Mr. and Mrs. T. Cummings
     -N. Cummings
          -Invitation to White House

John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts

Associated Councils of the Arts
     -Annual conference
     -President’s possible speech
           -Art
           -Environment
     -Conference title
           -”Washington and the Arts”
     -Membership
           -State arts councils
           -Size
     -Possible speech topics
           -Arts
           -Environment
           -Mood of country
     -Garment, Haldeman, Finch
     -Hunter Conference for Children and Youth
     -Support for President
     -Speech
           -Length
           -Protestors
                                       36

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 9/08)



          -Garment and Raymond K. Price, Jr.
          -Price’s responsibility

Movie industry
    -Administration’s program
    -Tax incentives
    -Peter M. Flanigan
    -Foreign films                                       Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
          -Percentage
          -Problem
    -US producers
          -Expense
    -President’s meeting with industry group
    -Flanigan
    -Haldeman
    -Opportunities for domestic movies
    -US world position
    -Costs
    -Movie producers
          -Jack L. Warner
          -Schreiber
    -Threat to US film industry
          -Export of jobs, production
    -Need for strength
          -Relation of movies to television
    -Anti-trust requirements
          -Divestiture
                -Possible reversal
    -Cost
    -Attendance
    -Theater owners
    -Producers
    -Subsidies
          -Difficulties
          -Congress
    -Taxes
          -Wilbur D. Mills
          -Timing
          -Special treatment
    -Producers
    -Anti-trust
    -Foreign imports
                                 37

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                          Tape Subject Log
                             (rev. 9/08)



-Tariff barriers
-Imports
      -Japan
      -Automobiles
-Foreign Trade
      -Peter G. Peterson
      -Moving pictures, oranges
      -Franco Maria Malfatti                        Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
            -Citrus products
-Hanks’ contacts with artists
-Preserving opportunities
-Television
-Quality of movies
      -Compared to baseball
-Public broadcasting
-Quality of movies
      -Compared to foreign films
      -Types of movies
      -Family movies
      -Instructions to Hanks, Garment
      -Opinion of the President’s daughters
      -Walter E (“Walt”) Disney
-Old movies on television
      -Opinion of Garment’s children
      -Story
-Instruction to Hanks
-Possible study of industry
      -Arts perspective
-Subsidies
-Congress
      -Quality
-Situation of movie industry
-Need for Administration’s help
-Federal Communications Commission [FCC]
-Dean Burch
-Flanigan
-Haldeman
-Follow-up
-”Therapy”
-Care
-Educational aspects
-Schools
                                  38

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                          Tape Subject Log
                             (rev. 9/08)



      -University of Southern California [USC]
      -University of California, Los Angeles [UCLA]
      -Indiana University
      -Northwestern University
      -USC
      -Cost
            -Figures
      -Interns, fellows                               Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
-Film people
-Types of movies
      -Stories
-Charlton Heston
-Storytelling
-John Wayne
      -Popularity
      -Film seen by the President
            -Story
-Problems
      -Relation with public
      -Reflection of national intelligentsia
-Haldeman
-Flanigan
-Necessity of industry to right itself
      -Six steps
      -Labor policies
      -Production costs
      -Quality of films
      -Need for better movies
-Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo
      -Jane Fonda
-”Patton”
-”Love story”
-Bob Evans
-”Lawrence of Arabia”
-Television
-Support for literature
      -Writers
-Support for music
      -Symphonic
      -Jazz
-Painting
-Visual
                                         39

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                     (rev. 9/08)



     -Effects of movies
          -Young people
     -Networks
          -Subsidies for movies
          -John N. Mitchell
     -Anti-trust
          -Legislation
     -Need for change                                      Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)

Arts and music
      -President’s conversation with unknown person
            -Watts
            -Children and the Arts
                  -Number
                  -Art gallery
                  -Music
      -President’s support
      -Inspiration
      -Effect on youth
            -Television
      -Instructions to Garment to contact movie industry
            -Responsibility of Arts commission
            -Quality of movies

Movie industry
    -Schreiber
    -Studios
    -Flanigan
    -John B. Connally
          -Tax plan
    -Quality of movies
          -Costs
          -Stories
    -Comments of unknown writer
          -Self-sufficiency of movie industry
    -Screen Writers’ Guild
    -Commendation for commission
    -Finch

Appointments to Board of Trustees of Hirshhorn Museum
    -L. Annenberg
                                       40

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 9/08)



     -T. Cummings
          -Mrs. T. Cummings
          -Wealth
                -Home near Hillcrest Golf Course
                -Art collection
     -Hirshhorn
     -Hines
          -Eastern Establishment                         Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
          -Dwight D. Eisenhower
     -Hirshhorn
     -Hines
     -T. Cummings
     -Hines
     -Norton Simon
          -Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey, Jr.
          -Possible meeting with President
                -Instructions to Haldeman
          -Wealth
                -David J. Mahoney, Jr.
          -Art collection
          -Possible ambassadorial appointment
          -Appointment to Board of Trustees

Hirshhorn Museum
     -Simon
     -President’s view

Simon
    -Modern art
    -Quality of collection
          -Renaissance art
    -President’s schedule
    -Views on airlines’ problems
          -George P. Shultz
          -Free enterprise system
    -Meeting with President
    -Garment’s previous meeting
    -Management ideas
    -President’s schedule
    -Shultz
                                              41

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



     Arts budget
           -Comments of unknown black New York state senator
               -Bronx
               -Importance of program
               -Support for commission

     President’s speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
          -Shirley Taylor                                         Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
                -Picture in newspaper
          -Kevin Taylor
                -Salute
          -Television
          -Reaction
                -Use of text
                -Conclusion
          -Finch’s call to President

     Movie industry
         -Importance
         -Relation to television
         -Quality
         -Support
         -Costs

Garment, Finch, and Hanks left at 12:18 pm

     Hanks
         -Arts appeal

     President’s schedule
          -Judge Thomas F. Murphy’s call to President

     Poll results
           -Approval rating
           -Changes regarding Vietnam
           -President’s speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
                  -Rating
                  -Reaction among those aware of speech
                  -Consistency of figures
                  -Figures
           -Comparison with press conference
                                   42

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                           Tape Subject Log
                              (rev. 9/08)



-State of the Union
      -Audience
-President’s speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
      -Analysis
      -Favorable
      -Unfavorable
-Press conference
-State of the Union                                          Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
-Cambodia speech
-President’s speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
      -Reaction
      -Vietnam withdrawal issue
      -Approval of the war
      -Shift
      -Rate of withdrawal
            -Shift in opinion
      -Timing of withdrawal
            -Immediate
            -By end of 1971
            -Vietnamization
            -Complete victory
      -Vietnamization
      -Analysis
      -President’s plan compared with Democrat caucus
-J. Edgar Hoover and Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
      -Approval rating
      -Results
      -Compared with January 1971
      -Analysis
      -Retirement
            -Age
      -Losses
-Lieutenant William L. Calley, Jr. issue
      -Approval
      -Disapproval
-Vietnam withdrawal issue
-George H. Gallup and Louis Harris polls
-Benchmark
-Timing of polls
-Effects of President’s speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
-Calley
-Laos
                                        43

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 9/08)



     -Calley
     -Laos
           -Disapproval
           -Undecided, unfavorable
     -Solidification of support
     -End-of-war issue
     -Need for confidence
     -President’s problem                                       Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
     -Economy
     -President’s approval rating
     -Revenue sharing
     -Economy

President’s schedule
     -Possible use of television at forthcoming American Society of Newspaper Editors
           [ASNE] interview, April 16, 1971
           -President’s opinion
                 -Against use of television
           -Staff opinions
                 -Charles W. Colson
                       -For use of television
                 -William L. Safire
                       -For use of television
                             -Not over-exposure
                             -Good alternative to press conference
                             -President’s best forum, question and answer session
                 -William H. Carruthers
                       -Against use of television
                             -Over-exposure
                             -Vietnam questions
                 -John A. Scali
                       -Against use of television
                       -Media coverage
                 -Cliff Miller
                       -Against use of television
                 -Richard A. Moore
                       -Against use of television
                                             44

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



                     -Scali
                     -Carruthers
                     -Scali
                           -Defensiveness on Indochina policy

     President’s uses of media
          -Television
          -Forthcoming appearances                               Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
          -Press conference
          -ASNE interview
                -Production problems
                -Black-tie dinner
                -Written press
                -Television
          -Cambodian speech
          -President’s speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
                -Emotional impact
                      -Duration
                -Withdrawal issue
                -K. Taylor
          -ASNE interview
          -Colson and Safire
          -Colson’s views
                -Public relations
          -Safire’s views

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 12:15 pm

     Refreshment

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 12:44 pm

     President’s uses of media
          -Safire
          -ASNE interview
                -Possible questions
                      -Emphasis on Vietnam
          -Possible press conference on April 17, 1971
          -Film coverage
          -Television
          -Scali
          -Radio
                                              45

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 9/08)



                   -Microphones
                   -Advantages
                   -Miller
             -Television
             -Scali and Ronald L. Ziegler
                   -Coverage of posthumous medal ceremony
             -Scali
             -Disadvantages to television                              Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
                   -Cameras
                   -Heat
                   -Discomfort
             -Arguments for television
                   -Pause for applause after questions
             -Another possible television forum
             -Chamber of Commerce
             -ASNE interview
                   -Forum
             -Chicago Executives Club
             -Detroit
                   -Automobile business

     Polls
             -Evaluation
             -Calley
                   -Emotional impact
             -Predictions
             -Partisans

     Television
          -Unknown person’s opinion on use
          -Timing
          -Vietnam
                -Removing as issue temporarily
          -Possible positive news
                -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]

Ziegler entered at 12:44 pm

     Ziegler’s press briefing, April 9, 1971
          -Summary
                -Vietnam
                      -Impressions and interpretations [of President’s policy by Hugh Scott]
                                       46

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 9/08)



                -Plan
                -Withdrawal date
                -Conditions of withdrawal
                      -Vietnamization
                      -Negotiation
                -Reassessment of conditions
                -Withdrawal date
     -McCracken                                               Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
          -[Possible resignation from Council of Economic Advisers]
     -National Endowment for the Arts
          -Budget
          -Hanks
          -Under-privileged children
          -Heston

ASNE interview
   -Media
         -Television
               -Forthcoming ASNE interview, April 16, 1971
               -Forthcoming press conference
                    -Follow-up to ASNE interview
               -Vietnam
                    -Questions
                          -ASNE interview
                          -Speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
                          -Adversarial format
                    -As televised issue
                    -Televised press conference
                          -Timing
               -Disadvantages
                    -Heat of television lens
         -Film
         -Radio
               -Possible use
               -Advantage of audio
                    -Television
         -Film
               -Timing
         -Television
               -Possible news items
                    -Vietnam
                    -Economic indicators
                             47

          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                     Tape Subject Log
                        (rev. 9/08)



           -Howard K. Smith [American Broadcasting System interview with
                 the President, March 22, 1971]
                 -Vietnam
     -Strategy
           -Vietnam questions
           -Domestic issues
           -Foreign policy
     -Speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971      Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
           -Audience
           -Impact
     -Over-exposure
     -Forum
           -Scali
                 -Image, popularity
                 -Reaction of ASNE
                 -Written press
                 -Future use of television
                 -ASNE use of cameras
           -Miller
           -Moore
           -Scali
                 -Defensive on Indochina
           -Carruthers
                 -Timing
                 -Vietnam questions
           -Safire
     -Contrivance
-Film
-Radio
-Film
      -One camera
      -Lights
      -Set-up
      -Kennedy
            -Press conference
                 -Use of camera
      -One camera
      -Lights
      -Black tie
-Television
      -Networks
                                              48

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



               -Radio
                    -Audience
                    -Replay
          -Background
               -Panel
                    -Unknown person
                    -Wire service
               -Economic indicators                                  Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
                    -Release
                    -Retail sales
                    -Gross National Product [GNP]
                    -Unemployment

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 12:44 pm

     President’s schedule
          -Donald H. Rumsfeld and parents
          -Henry A. Kissinger

Bull left at an unknown time before 1:04 pm

     ASNE interview
        -Film
        -One camera
        -Ziegler’s possible action

     President’s schedule
          -Saint John’s Episcopal Church
                -Transportation
                      -Walking
                           -Lafayette Park
                      -Driving
                -Announcement

Rumsfeld, Joyce (Pierson) Rumsfeld, and his parents, George D. and Jeannette (Husted)
Rumsfeld, entered at an unknown time after 1:04 pm

     Greetings

     Photograph

     [General conversation]
                                             49

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 9/08)




     Gifts
             -Cufflinks

     Rumsfeld’s trip to Europe
         -Timing
         -Rome, Paris, London
                                                               Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
The Rumsfelds left at an unknown time before 1:06 pm

     ASNE interview
        -Use of media
              -Film
              -Television
                    -Reaction
                    -Film editing problems
                    -Coverage
        -Possible questions
              -Vietnam
              -Revenue sharing
              -Economy
              -Washington newspapers
              -Vietnam

     Press briefing
           -Economy
                 -Inflation
           -Summer youth program
                 -Timing

     President’s Easter plans
          -Gettysburg [Pennsylvania] church
                -Eisenhower
                -Minister
                      -Funeral of Eisenhower
          -Gettysburg College students
                -Possible demonstrations
          -Announcement
          -Gettysburg church
                -Connection with Abraham Lincoln
                -Gettysburg Address
                -Networks
                                        50

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 9/08)



              -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
              -National Broadcasting Company [NBC]
          -Mamie G. D. Eisenhower
          -Media coverage
          -Appearance
          -Demonstration

Demonstrations                                            Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
    -Veterans
    -ASNE
    -Schedule of events
    -Edmund S. Muskie’s endorsement
    -Robert J. Dole
    -Rennie Davis
    -Staff
          -Clarification on Muskie’s endorsement
    -Muskie
          -Revenue sharing
          -Aleksei N. Kosygin
                -US foreign policy
    -Hubert H. Humphrey
    -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
    -Muskie

Muskie
    -Polls
          -Ratings

George W. Romney and Nelson A. Rockefeller
    -Polls
          -Ratings

Muskie
    -Staff difficulties
          -Infiltration
                 -Identity
          -Report of infiltrator
                 -Muskie’s comments at meeting
                       -Suspicion of disloyalty
                 -Staff director’s comments
                                          51

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 9/08)



               -Muskie’s comments at meeting
                     -Mayor’s meeting
               -Conflict with staff
          -Evaluation

Rockefeller
    -Staff handling
    -Advice                                                Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)

Muskie
    -Staff difficulties
          -Responsibility

Muskie’s staffers
    -Kissinger
    -William A. K. (“Tony”) Lake
    -Identity
           -J. F. Kennedy
    -Old administrative assistant
           -Replacement
    -New administrative assistant
    -Infiltrator
    -Conflict
    -Cover for infiltrator

Campaign practices
    -Humphrey
         -Coverage
    -E. M. Kennedy
         -Coverage
    -George S. McGovern
         -Coverage
    -E. M. Kennedy
         -Coverage

E. M. Kennedy
     -Judgement
     -[Virginia] Joan (Bennett) Kennedy
           -Visit to White House
     -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon
     -V. J. Kennedy
           -Dress
                                          52

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 9/08)



     -Jet set
     -Chappaquiddick
     -Ethel (Skakel) Kennedy
     -Jacqueline Lee Bouvier Kennedy Onassis

Muskie
    -Staff difficulty
          -Reflection on Muskie                            Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
    -Staff meetings
    -Strategy
    -Transcript provided by infiltrator

E. M. Kennedy
     -Taping
     -Congress
     -Bugging
     -Hoover

[Thomas] Hale Boggs
    -Charges against Hoover
          -Congressional Record
               -Response by Congress
                    -House Republicans
                          -Samuel L. Devine
                          -Carleton J. King

Richard H. Ichord
     -Demonstrators
          -Communist front groups
     -Publicity for change

Demonstrations
    -Size
    -Composition
    -Organization
    -Cambodia demonstration
    -Spark
    -Organization
    -Cambodia demonstration
    -Santa Cruz demonstration
          -University of California at Santa Cruz [UCSC]
               -Acceptance of Haldeman’s son
                                       53

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                 Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 9/08)



                 -Burning
           -Experimental college
                 -Oxford Plan
                 -Claremont
           -Vietnam
           -Dean E. McHenry
                 -Political scientist
                 -UCLA                                        Conv. No. 476-14 (cont.)
                 -Political affiliation
                 -Congressional run
           -Setting
     -Fire damage
     -Percentage of students involved
     -Washington demonstrators
           -Motivation
     -Ziegler’s experience
           -National Collegiate Athletic Association [NCAA]
           -Balboa
           -UCLA
     -Youth
           -Meeting with Mitchell and Colson
           -Issues
           -Youth
           -Action
           -Interest in business politics
           -Revenue sharing
     -Haldeman’s conversation with son
           -John D. Ehrlichman
     -Haldeman’s conversation with unknown woman
     -Stanford University
     -Harvard University
     -Columbia University
     -Yale University
     -Wellesley College
           -Peterson
                 -Harvard University

President’s schedule
     -Travel to church service
           -Walking
           -Driving
                                             54

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 9/08)



Haldeman and Ziegler left at 1:30 pm